Turn Signals, Wipers & Fuel Sender - 2 of 3 Solved!

[Adventurewagen]

The Green bus made it's first voyage (now second) into the office today and ran like a champ. I've worked out so many problems that I'm finally getting around to tackling some of the smaller issues that I'll list here. I figured I'd make one post since I think some of them may be related.

Problem #1: Turn Signals.

I have no turn signals. I pulled the flasher relay and it was burnt on one of the connectors so I went to my flaps and bought some knock off replacement. Still no signals so I was figuring on testing the switch itself now. Any places to attack first? Fuse box or maybe checking for power at a relay socket?

Update: Still no turn signals. So far I've checked the bulbs, the fuses and the flasher relay which is getting power. With the car on I get 12v at the 49a terminal and when I turn the switch left and right the voltage goes to 12v at 31 and 49 and drops to something negligible at 49a. I have none of the signals working so I doubt it's a ground problem unless there is a common ground somewhere.

Anybody got a clue about where to go from here? It seems like the switch is fine, the flasher relay is fine, the bulbs are good and the fuses aren't blown, so what the hell?

Problem #2: Wipers. (Solved)

I had wipers that worked initially but now I blow my 10th fuse out (16A fuse for wipers) when I turn them on. Maybe I messed up something when replacing the ignition switch the second time. It could explain the issues with both the turn signals and wipers. Anybody know how to test the switches from the plug-ins at the base of the steering column?

Solution #2: I traced all the wires yesterday and pulled the rear defrost off thinking that had a bad ground but that didn't do it. So I checked all the grounds an fiddled with those which didn't help. By now I'd popped at least 4 fuses. Next I found the white wiring harness by the motor which looked possibly not completely pushed together. So I pushed it together more and that did the trick. Now I have working wipers.

The motor is kind of loud though. Anything I can do to refurbish the motor, like grease or anything to quiet it down? I think 7 years of sitting wasn't nice to it.

Problem #3: Fuel Gauge.

I have a hole cut to access the sender from the PO. So I pulled the sender which I'll post a picture of when I get another camera. It was toast. It was super crusty and the wires were broken on it. The new one is in but I'm not getting any power to the sender with the ignition on. My guess is the PO futzed with it when it went out thinking it was the gauge and messed something up. I've got this link and need to troubleshoot it sometime in the near future.

http://www.type2.com/library/misc/vwggauge.htm

Anybody else got any good troubleshooting techniques for the fuel sender?

Edit: I read that grounding the + lead at the sender should peg out the instrument gauge with the key on. I'll go try this at lunch. Any idea if this is right? I still need to figure out how to read the current track diagrams. I started a post on that already but haven't had time to digest the info.

Update: Fuel Gauge - So grounding the + lead at the sender doesn't peg out the gauge with the key on. Bummer. If I measure the voltage at the gauge in the instrument panel I see that the "Empty" side of the gauge is getting 12v and the "full" side of the gauge is getting say 1.8v but it still reads nothing.

Does that mean my fuel gauge itself is dead? My buddy mentioned some little vibrational unit in there that probably died?

[Amskeptic]

Update: Still no turn signals. So far I've checked the bulbs, the fuses and the flasher relay which is getting power. With the car on I get 12v at the 49a terminal and when I turn the switch left and right the voltage goes to 12v at 31 and 49 and drops to something negligible at 49a. I have none of the signals working so I doubt it's a ground problem unless there is a common ground somewhere.

You have parking lamps up front? Are they the proper mellow 5w filaments inside the dual-filament bulbs? Do you get emergency flasher illumination at each turn signal when the emergency flasher is on?
The turn signals use the emergency flasher relay, so it needs to be functional before you tear into downstream territory.

The motor is kind of loud though. Anything I can do to refurbish the motor, like grease or anything to quiet it down? I think 7 years of sitting wasn't nice to it.

Lubrication is good. So is installing the gears and lever in the correct position so they park properly. The wiper motor mounts in rubber. If it is petrified rubber, you get lots of noise too. In a perfect world, they are sort of noisy anyhow being so close to your ears.

Problem #3: Fuel Gauge
Anybody else got any good troubleshooting techniques for the fuel sender?
My buddy mentioned some little vibrational unit in there that probably died?

The gauge is powered and the ground is variable resistance. Try grounding the (-) at the gauge while you watch. The needle should move. If it does, then the problem is on the way to sender or at the sender. The vibrator deal was on the early gauges like your '71, where the needle "hops to" when you turn on the ignition. The "slow climb" of the later gauges does not use a vibrator IIRC.
Colin

[Adventurewagen]

Update: Still no turn signals. So far I've checked the bulbs, the fuses and the flasher relay which is getting power. With the car on I get 12v at the 49a terminal and when I turn the switch left and right the voltage goes to 12v at 31 and 49 and drops to something negligible at 49a. I have none of the signals working so I doubt it's a ground problem unless there is a common ground somewhere.

You have parking lamps up front? Are they the proper mellow 5w filaments inside the dual-filament bulbs? Do you get emergency flasher illumination at each turn signal when the emergency flasher is on?
The turn signals use the emergency flasher relay, so it needs to be functional before you tear into downstream territory.

Yes, but I haven't double checked they are the correct 12V/5W/21W (OSRAM 7528 or ANSI 1157) bulbs. I do know my rear bulbs are all replaced by me and the correct wattages.

The emergency flasher does not work either. I replaced the emergency flasher relay though since I was pretty sure that was the initial problem. I bought some off brand one from my FLAPS but I popped in the 71's flasher last night too and no change.

The motor is kind of loud

Lubrication is good. So is installing the gears and lever in the correct position so they park properly. The wiper motor mounts in rubber. If it is petrified rubber, you get lots of noise too. In a perfect world, they are sort of noisy anyhow being so close to your ears.

Where can I lubricate the motor and with what? Bentley doesn't mention anything. The motor itself is loud. I also say it's loud in comparison to the 63 and the 71 which makes me wonder if the motor is crusty and will decide to die. I'd rather try to fix it up and get some mileage out of it instead of leaving it to burn up ;)

Problem #3: Fuel Gauge
Anybody else got any good troubleshooting techniques for the fuel sender?
My buddy mentioned some little vibrational unit in there that probably died?

The gauge is powered and the ground is variable resistance. Try grounding the (-) at the gauge while you watch. The needle should move. If it does, then the problem is on the way to sender or at the sender. The vibrator deal was on the early gauges like your '71, where the needle "hops to" when you turn on the ignition. The "slow climb" of the later gauges does not use a vibrator IIRC.

I take it the (-) at the gauge is on the left side (full side) while looking at the back of the gauge? When you say ground, you mean just keep the wire attached but put another wire from there to a ground? Good info on the lack of the vibrator unit. I'll try that today and let you know if the gauge moves. I couldn't get it to move by grounding the + end on the gauge side though.

Also, the sender is a new unit from VDO. I'm sure it could be a lemon but assuming it's not, I bet my problem is in the gauge itself.

Can you replace the needle part or do you need to buy a whole new gauge unit?

[Amskeptic]

The Emergency flasher does not work either. I replaced the emergency flasher relay though since I was pretty sure that was the initial problem. I bought some off brand one from FLAPS but I popped in the 71's flasher last night too and no change.

You will need to consult deeply with a wiring diagram. Follow all tracks with great diligence.

Where can I lubricate the motor and with what?

Tear it down and lubricate the motor's bronze bushings with engine oil and the gears with garage door opener grease. Clean the commutator with fine sandpaper and cut tiny grooves between each segment just like a John Muir generator clean-up. Make sure that you reassemble the whole thing according to Bentley or the wipers won't park correctly.

I take it the (-) at the gauge is on the left side (full side) while looking at the back of the gauge? When you say ground, you mean just keep the wire attached but put another wire from there to a ground? Can you replace the needle part or do you need to buy a whole new gauge unit?

I can't answer that orientation question. Utilize your deductive powers to determine power supply and ground path to the sender. The wiring diagram will tell you exactly which wire goes where. Use it. When testing the gauge unit, you must remove the gauge wire to the sender and you must ground out the terminal now exposed carefully, don't let some wild uncontrolled current melt the gauge windings if you have excess voltage coming to the gauge. Just do a quick touch, look, touch some more, look, see if needle responds.

[Adventurewagen]

Cool, thanks. I've got some work ahead of me.

[Adventurewagen]

Bump.

I need some help getting these stupid turn signals working. Which front bulbs are supposed to "flash"?

The big bulb or the tiny one in there?

Any body else run into flasher issues? I've traced things out and can't seem to find anything.

[Adventurewagen]

The damn Emergency flasher SWITCH had come in half. I know I'd read about it before but somehow it never stuck and I think I'd assumed they meant the flasher relay. So after much wire testing and head banging I finally found it.

Blaaaaah. Turn signals are nice.

[vdubyah73]

My '77 actually uses what appears to be an interior light bulb in metal box mounted to the back of my speedo for some kind if purpose related to the gas gauge. The light seems to get brighter the lower the gauge goes. Maybe your bulb is blown or the po removed it.

Bill

[Adventurewagen]

My '77 actually uses what appears to be an interior light bulb in metal box mounted to the back of my speedo for some kind if purpose related to the gas gauge. The light seems to get brighter the lower the gauge goes. Maybe your bulb is blown or the po removed it.

Bill

Hmmmm. Definitely something to check. Since putting in a new gas sender and cleaning the tank I will actually get some response from the fuel gauge. When I fill up the bus it will read right in the middle of the empty red section but other than that it mostly reads zero. I get 12v to the gauge but have assumed it's just busted. I should take a look for that bulb and see what I've got before buying a new fuel gauge.

[Mark]

The damn Emergency flasher SWITCH had come in half. I know I'd read about it before but somehow it never stuck and I think I'd assumed they meant the flasher relay. So after much wire testing and head banging I finally found it.

Blaaaaah. Turn signals are nice.

I've been tidying up the spaghetti nest of wiring in the cabin, and noticed a previous owner tie-wrapped the flasher switch back together!?
Time will tell how well this holds, although it appears it's already been awhile.