Itinerant Air-Cooled

asiab3 wrote:
Getting my dual horns dialed in this week; Michigan drivers leave a lot to be desired.

Robbie

Just two stock horns, or? Would love some details. My stock one is kaput, looking for an alternative that doesn't require the use of relay's for the low voltage available in the stock wiring.

airkooledchris wrote:

asiab3 wrote:
Getting my dual horns dialed in this week; Michigan drivers leave a lot to be desired.

Robbie

Just two stock horns, or? Would love some details. My stock one is kaput, looking for an alternative that doesn't require the use of relay's for the low voltage available in the stock wiring.

Get a tinny cheap horn pink piiiiiiiiiiiiink! and a throatier beefier old original that you can adjust the note on.
Get them different enough from each other that it is a real sour sound. And please use relays. The sound is dependent on a surfeit of fresh electricity. Remember the moments that you need a horn, emergencies like when that sewer cleaning truck was backing into me in Portland OR.
Colin

I installed a set of 914 dual horns that blast the crap out of people....very loud.

Bleyseng wrote:I installed a set of 914 dual horns that blast the crap out of people....very loud.

I am not surprised.

Horns, however, have to match the vehicle from which they bray.

If you stick a truck air horn on a Smartcar, nobody is going to get it . . . they will be looking for a truck.

If you put Porsche dual air horns on a bus, people will be looking for a sports car.

If you blast the crap out of people, you may ratchet up a road situation.
Colin ?

Amskeptic wrote:

Bleyseng wrote:I installed a set of 914 dual horns that blast the crap out of people....very loud.

I am not surprised.

Horns, however, have to match the vehicle from which they bray.

If you stick a truck air horn on a Smartcar, nobody is going to get it . . . they will be looking for a truck.

If you put Porsche dual air horns on a bus, people will be looking for a sports car.

If you blast the crap out of people, you may ratchet up a road situation.
Colin ?

No, they just don't back into me anymore..

If the weak point of the factory horn system is the 11.2 Volts that they made available to the stock horn, why a relay?

The way I understand it is that there is (switched) 11.2 volts always running to the horn and pressing the horn on your steering wheel provides a ground for it.

Why not just run a new 12V line directly to the horns and keep the stock ground from the steering wheel? This would provide constant 12V to the horn and then activate it only when pressing the stock horn on the wheel right?

I understand that running the relay would make the horn work with a constant ground and then pressing the horn would then provide the 12V's, which would still require you to run a new 12V power line down to them while also introducing an externally mounted relay. Yes, relays are cheap, but even moreso if you don't have to buy/use them?

Obviously im missing something as this does appear to be what others are doing, just not sure why.

airkooledchris wrote:If the weak point of the factory horn system is the 11.2 Volts that they made available to the stock horn, why a relay?

The way I understand it is that there is (switched) 11.2 volts always running to the horn and pressing the horn on your steering wheel provides a ground for it.

Why not just run a new 12V line directly to the horns and keep the stock ground from the steering wheel? This would provide constant 12V to the horn and then activate it only when pressing the stock horn on the wheel right?

I understand that running the relay would make the horn work with a constant ground and then pressing the horn would then provide the 12V's, which would still require you to run a new 12V power line down to them while also introducing an externally mounted relay. Yes, relays are cheap, but even moreso if you don't have to buy/use them?

Obviously im missing something as this does appear to be what others are doing, just not sure why.

Horns eat electricity.

Loudness: 115 dB
Power Consumption: 66 Watt
Voltage: 12 V
Frequency: 335 Hz

That's about 11 amps through the fuse.

The horn button contact surfaces do NOT like the amperage of two horns if you have ever seen the burnt brass and cooked brush).

Chloe uses the original horn wiring in an elegant manner.
The 12 volts that used to go to the horn now goes to Relay 86.
Relay 85 is grounded through the horn button circuit via the brown wire that used to be on the sole horn.
Ignition switched fuse and wire goes to 30 on the relay.
87 is the power to both horns which are grounded at their mountings. Simple.
Colin
(should we move this to Electrical Forum or is it a story in the making?)

(should we move this to Electrical Forum or is it a story in the making?)

Only if you honk.

66 watts / 12V = 5,5 amp per horn x 2 horns - 11 amps.

sgkent wrote:

(should we move this to Electrical Forum or is it a story in the making?)

Only if you honk.

66 watts / 12V = 5,5 amp per horn x 2 horns - 11 amps.

11 amps draw for what? half a sec? not gonna kill the car....

To save the Itinerary Forums from descending into technical shoot-outs, we need to dump topics that catch on fire and take on a life of their own, such as horns, dual horns, relays, wiring, fuses, amperage, decibels. Enjoy, participate.

Bleyseng wrote:

sgkent wrote:

(should we move this to Electrical Forum or is it a story in the making?)

Only if you honk.

66 watts / 12V = 5,5 amp per horn x 2 horns - 11 amps.

11 amps draw for what? half a sec? not gonna kill the car....

We are not talking about killing the car. Come on, Geoff, you know there are other consumers on the circuit, and you know the factory circuit is 8a.

Please do not bother installing relays or thinking about a larger fuse if that is not your wish, you may go blow your "914 dual horns that blast the crap out of people....very loud" all you like.

If my German serves me, the late bus shares brake lights with the horn. Why blow a fuse because you are on the brakes and blasting the damn horn to wake up some texting idiot for over a half second?
Colin

"killing the car" ie burning or arcing the brass horn contacts.
I have yet to see this after 4 years but then again I don't lay on the horn for 3 minutes. The 914 wiring isn't as robust as a bus so it worked fine there without a relay. Now the ghia has a relay for the dual horns.
I switched to the dual horns as the stock weak " beep" wasn't cutting it in Seattle traffic. People are alway doing crazy stuff here. But even with dual horns a lady backed into the 914 while my wife was driving it at the REI parking garage. $2500 damage as the SUV backed into the turn signal and fender and she said I never saw the car. (car is bright orange)
The Ghia still doesn't have working horns due to the previous mechanic cutting and hacking the wiring harness all up plus it's painted all black.

Amskeptic wrote: If my German serves me, the late bus shares brake lights with the horn. Why blow a fuse because you are on the brakes and blasting the damn horn to wake up some texting idiot for over a half second?

If my English serves me, Chloe used to deal with the brake lights, the horn, AND the rear window defogger. Yikes. Buddy only deals with the horn, brake lights, and turn signal lights. So even though I have a third brake light run off a dedicated relay, I am not going to risk the brake lights going out when using the hornS!

Sounds like a "today project." Wish me luck.
Robbie

Robbie - what I did was run a fused and dedicated larger bus wire to the front and added an aux fuse box. Many here do that if you haven't already. Then it is a no brainer to add that relay for the dual horns. 1/2 the fuse box is always live, and the other half runs off the main bus that is switched. Because it is fused near the battery, there is no fear of a chaffing thru causing an issue.

Hey look at that! Though appreciated, it might be a little late. I just finished wrapping up the project. (Successfully!)

I used fuse 10 for my relay #30 connection; this is always hot on a '69 and currently only used by my under-dash LED light strip. (Read: less than one amp draw.) As of right now, the horns work as designed off the relay with an 8-amp fuse. When I hit the middle of nowhere tomorrow, I will lay on the horn button and see how long they honk before blowing the 8-amp fuse. If they last more than ten seconds, I'll consider the setup adequate. If the 8-amp fuse blows, I will reconsider, as I don't want any 16-amp fuses in my stock fuse box; the wiring is not designed for that kind of current.

The tuning of the horns is fun; I eventually settled on a minor second as the chosen interval. It gives the needed "bite" for attending to Michigan drivers. Perhaps I'll tune it to each state's demands.

Robbie


For the authoritative "crunch" of my chosen horn tune, 3:47 of the Mackey Saxophone Concerto will demonstrate the dissonence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5U3VYYgj_I


For my Volkswagen interpretation, you have my quick beeps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD6jtmSIuIo