1974 bus - strange starter noise

[whc03grady]

Strange starter noise, like some sort of prairie bird calling for a mate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_Iiy4DGgU
It does start though.

After this, I took the starter out (it wasn't loose, btw) and put it back in, just to see if there was anything to see. There wasn't, to my eye, other than the braided wire connection between the starter housing and solenoid looks a little ratty.
It still makes the noise, though it isn't perfectly in concert with the turning, if that makes sense. It doesn't chirp-chirp-chirp-chirp, but cheeee-urp, and then the engine's running.
When I took it out, the bushing practically fell into my hands (and, thankfully, not into the bell housing). Given others' reports on the difficulty of removing/installing the bushing, I wonder if mine isn't severely worn (of course it is) and if THAT might be causing the noise.

[vdubyah73]

dollars to donuts, the bushing was spinning in it's bore, if it came out with the starter.

[whc03grady]

dollars to donuts, the bushing was spinning in its bore, if it came out with the starter.

Yeah, I mean it just slid on out and slid back in.

Would that also make for a bit of a hard start?

[Amskeptic]

Strange starter noise, like some sort of prairie bird calling for a mate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_Iiy4DGgU
It does start though.

After this, I took the starter out (it wasn't loose, btw) and put it back in, just to see if there was anything to see. There wasn't, to my eye, other than the braided wire connection between the starter housing and solenoid looks a little ratty.
It still makes the noise, though it isn't perfectly in concert with the turning, if that makes sense. It doesn't chirp-chirp-chirp-chirp, but cheeee-urp, and then the engine's running.
When I took it out, the bushing practically fell into my hands (and, thankfully, not into the bell housing). Given others' reports on the difficulty of removing/installing the bushing, I wonder if mine isn't severely worn (of course it is) and if THAT might be causing the noise.

I put that bushing in, as the starter box demanded. I tapped it in flush with the inner bore using an 11mm socket, and applied molybdenum disulfide grease to the inner surface of the bushing. The only thing that could make the bushing loose would be dry seizure with the starter shaft making it spin in the transaxle bore, or some sort of hideous misalignment. I would peen the outside surface of the bushing with a succession of visegrip teeth marks (careful boy) clean the heck out of the hole in the transaxle and the freshly peened bushing, use red loctite to install, let set, install starter with a light coating of **engine oil** on the shaft of the starter where it goes into the bushing, what do you think Bill?
Colin
(if it still makes hideous noises, I guarantee you that you have Another Fine Crap Starter Rebuild Defect)

[whc03grady]

I put that bushing in, as the starter box demanded. I tapped it in flush with the inner bore using an 11mm socket, and applied molybdenum disulfide grease to the inner surface of the bushing. The only thing that could make the bushing loose would be dry seizure with the starter shaft making it spin in the transaxle bore, or some sort of hideous misalignment. I would peen the outside surface of the bushing with a succession of visegrip teeth marks (careful boy) clean the heck out of the hole in the transaxle and the freshly peened bushing, use red loctite to install, let set, install starter with a light coating of **engine oil** on the shaft of the starter where it goes into the bushing, what do you think Bill?
Colin
(if it still makes hideous noises, I guarantee you that you have Another Fine Crap Starter Rebuild Defect)

I'm not following you--I'm pretty sure I put the bushing in during reassembly, and didn't use anything to do it. Or am I misremembering?

In any case, it comes right on out of its hole (and goes back in) without coaxing now. Do you still recommend the procedure outlined above?

The starter isn't a rebuild, btw. It looks as though it's probably the one that came with the car. If it's a rebuild, it's a rebuild from the Carter era, maybe early Reagan.

[ruckman101]

I had to use a thread cutter to bite a bit into the old bushing to get it out. It certainly didn't slip easily out, or in. I think I pressed the new one in with a socket or some contrivance that worked. Lock tite and peening the outer sounds like the ticket to me.

Glad to hear you didn't lose the new one into the bell housing. That was so annoying.


neal

[vdubyah73]

leave it on the starter shaft when you grip it with the vise grips. you don't want to distort the inside of the bushing, just squeeze enough with the v/g to distort the outside surface of the bushing, make it a tight fit in the bellhousing bore. red loctite generally needs heat to undo, doesn't it? maybe use blue. marine mechs like to use a sealant very similar to our aviation goop as both a threadlocker and neverseize. does both with one application.

[whc03grady]

I'm toying with the idea of using a manual transmission starter, actually. Reports are that it doesn't use any bushing, though it won't work with an 091 bell housing.
How does one identify an 091 bell housing in situ?

[Amskeptic]

I'm toying with the idea of using a manual transmission starter, actually. Reports are that it doesn't use any bushing, though it won't work with an 091 bell housing.
How does one identify an 091 bell housing in situ?

It is the automatic transmission starter that doesn't need support. Is that what you meant?

I can't answer that, save to say that the 091 transaxle itself has six big stiffener ribs with radiused corners at the differential, the late 002s had five sharp edged ribs, and the early 002s as originally supplied with your car had three radiused ribs.

Your idea toying I hope to slow down with a question. Have you ascertained why the starter is making such a thrashy sound?
Colin

[whc03grady]

Your idea toying I hope to slow down with a question. Have you ascertained why the starter is making such a thrashy sound?

Well, two things are going on:
(1) The starter makes that noise (and is a little weak).
(2) With the starter removed, the bushing slides in and out with the greatest of ease.

I'm of a mind to draw a correlation between (1) and (2). Maybe this isn't inductively sound, correlation not being equivalent to causation and all. But that's why I think the starter is making such a thrashy sound.

[Amskeptic]

Your idea toying I hope to slow down with a question. Have you ascertained why the starter is making such a thrashy sound?

Well, two things are going on:
(1) The starter makes that noise (and is a little weak).
(2) With the starter removed, the bushing slides in and out with the greatest of ease.

I'm of a mind to draw a correlation between (1) and (2). Maybe this isn't inductively sound, correlation not being equivalent to causation and all. But that's why I think the starter is making such a thrashy sound.

I am not so inclined ... yet. Your Squareback uses the same starter as the buses up to 1975. Pull it and try it on the bus unless it has a genuine late model fuel injected bus 091 bell housing/entire tranaxle but why would it? Loctite the bushing into the bell housing with the patented vdubyah73/Amskeptic gnarly knurling method.
Colin