Itinerant Air-Cooled

whc03grady wrote:Was this a result of overenthusiastic shifting or can I blame RANCHO PERFORMANCE TRANSAXLES OF FULLERTON CALIFORNIA for this <25,000 mile failure? If I can blame RANCHO PERFORMANCE TRANSAXLES OF FULLERTON CALIFORNIA, I will.

I'd blame RANCHO PERFORMANCE TRANSAXLES OF FULLERTON CALIFORNIA, gently.

The bolts should be torqued to spec at assembly, and my guess is that the bolt kept turning a bit even as it hit the torque value. What professional shop makes the torque wrench stall at the specified torque AND hold it there AND go back to the other bolt until it is well and truly stalled there, then go back to the first bolt where it should not move an iota at the specified torque value, AND recheck the second one? Most just slap that sucker together, the wrench goes click and boof! nose cone is on . . .
Colin
(fix it! you'll be very proud, a careful helicoil or a bigger bolt ought to do it, you may need to grind down the head a smidge of a larger bolt so it does not interfere with shift interlock)

Amskeptic wrote:A careful helicoil or a bigger bolt ought to do it, you may need to grind down the head a smidge of a larger bolt so it does not interfere with shift interlock

The entirety of my knowledge about helicoiling is near completely summed up by the fact that I suspected it might be appropriate in this situation; I certainly don't know how to actually do it. Advice? Is one better than the other, tapping to the next side up vs. thread insert, in this case?
Other questions: Should I be able to move the selector shafts by hand?

whc03grady wrote: Should I be able to move the selector shafts by hand?

The spec'd force required to overcome detents on the 002 transmission is 7-10 kg. That should be manageable for most hands.
Is the stripped hole in the gear housing "blind"? Does anyone know how much material surrounds the hole?
Drilling and tapping in soft magnesium requires care - drill bits like to bite in and hurl themselves in a more-or-less forward direction -
can make for very sloppy threaded fits.
There are various kinds of threaded inserts. Debate rages on as to the relative merits of "Heli-coils" versus "Time-serts", for instance.

kreemoweet wrote:The spec'd force required to overcome detents on the 002 transmission is 7-10 kg. That should be manageable for most hands.

I didn't try to gorilla them, but I couldn't move them with my hands. How much should I worry?
Another question: should the selector shafts be in a certain position before installation?
Another question: how is that pin secured, the one that goes through the shift lever and bracket?

If you are in a gear, then the only selector shaft that will move is the one that will take you out of that gear. That's what the interlock plungers (see illustration above)
are all about. The "pin" you ask about I take to be the "selector link shaft" of Fig. 7-11 in the Type 2 Bentley manual, Manual Transmission and Rear Axle chapter. It is
not really "secured" by anything. It just rides on the bottom of the shift housing (nosecone). Yes, it will drop right out when you remove the nosecone. If you look at your
shift housing, you will probably see the wear mark where that shaft has been sitting.

I don't think it matters what gear the trans is in on installation, except as it may affect the ease of reattaching the shift rod/linkage. I always think of "neutral"
as a nice safe place.

EDIT: I just notices that the Bentley manual gives quite a different answer on force required to move the selector shafts: 15-20 kg (33-44 lbs). The 7-10 kg spec
comes from the VW Workshop Manual. Also, Fig. 7-12 in the Bentley seems to show the bracket bolt holes are tapped all the way into the interior of the
gear carrier, adding a bit more spice and challenge to the re-tapping job.

kreemoweet wrote:The "pin" you ask about I take to be the "selector link shaft" of Fig. 7-11 in the Type 2 Bentley manual, Manual Transmission and Rear Axle chapter. It is
not really "secured" by anything. It just rides on the bottom of the shift housing (nosecone). Yes, it will drop right out when you remove the nosecone. If you look at your
shift housing, you will probably see the wear mark where that shaft has been sitting.

I'm not sure about this. I had E-clips holding my vertical selector link pin in place. I could not imagine getting that pin to stay put otherwise.

asiab3 wrote: I had E-clips . . .

That would be from the later ( 091 trans ?) modified unit with the springs. I have two working 002 boxes with no e-clips on the shaft, and two spare nosecones
from 002's that clearly show where the pin was sitting on the bottom of the nosecone. And no, they do not stay put without the nosecone in place.
Bad design? You decide!

The guy at Rancho confirms Bentley fig. 7-12...those bolts do go through. But, he says, just keep a vacuum on it and don't worry too much about shavings, as they'll be Magnesium which the steel gears will promptly grind into pulp.

kreemoweet wrote:

asiab3 wrote: I had E-clips . . .

That would be from the later ( 091 trans ?) modified unit with the springs. I have two working 002 boxes with no e-clips on the shaft, and two spare nosecones
from 002's that clearly show where the pin was sitting on the bottom of the nosecone. And no, they do not stay put without the nosecone in place.
Bad design? You decide!

Interesting. I can't imagine trying to get that thing to sit proper while dealing with the hockey stick, the nosecone covered in sealant, and trying to keep the residual hypoid oil off the mating flange. I have the circlips in mine, but it is a factory rebuild with 091 parts strewn about.

Mitch, Have you decided about inserts or tapping? I'm curious to know if anyone has recommended a "proper" fix for the magnesium threads.

asiab3 wrote:Mitch, Have you decided about inserts or tapping? I'm curious to know if anyone has recommended a "proper" fix for the magnesium threads.

The guy at Rancho somewhat lackadaisically suggested it didn't matter between heli coil and timeserts (which are just different brands of the same thing, I guess). I didn't ask about tapping to the next size bolt because I'm not in a position to grind its head down if need be.

asiab3 wrote:

kreemoweet wrote:

asiab3 wrote: I had E-clips . . .

That would be from the later ( 091 trans ?) modified unit with the springs. I have two working 002 boxes with no e-clips on the shaft, and two spare nosecones
from 002's that clearly show where the pin was sitting on the bottom of the nosecone. And no, they do not stay put without the nosecone in place.
Bad design? You decide!

Interesting. I can't imagine trying to get that thing to sit proper while dealing with the hockey stick, the nosecone covered in sealant, and trying to keep the residual hypoid oil off the mating flange. I have the circlips in mine, but it is a factory rebuild with 091 parts strewn about.

Back in 2013, I had two posts in the 2013 Itinerary forum "Greetings From Atlanta" and "greetings From Atlanta II" where I disassembled Chloe's and the BobD's nose cones.

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=11627#p202648

The 091's shaft was trapped in place by the spring circlips. Chloe's had a circlip at the bottom, IIRC.
Colin

I read and reread those when I pulled my nosecone last month, and I read and reread again looking for pictures of Chloe's yesterday. But then I got sidetracked and installed my new transaxle courtesy of RANCHO PERFORMANCE TRANSAXLES OF FULLERTON CALIFORNIA…
(I kept the E-clips in the old nosecone even when I deleted the springs. Assembly was easy-peasy.)

ROBBIE OF NEWHALL CALIFORNIA

asiab3 wrote:I read and reread those when I pulled my nosecone last month, and I read and reread again looking for pictures of Chloe's yesterday. But then I got sidetracked and installed my new transaxle courtesy of RANCHO PERFORMANCE TRANSAXLES OF FULLERTON CALIFORNIA…
(I kept the E-clips in the old nosecone even when I deleted the springs. Assembly was easy-peasy.)

ROBBIE OF NEWHALL CALIFORNIA

Funny how you can spend so much time and take pictures and still miss essential details like, did the #*@# shaft actually have a &!@&# circlip holding the #(*! thing to the *!% transaxle????

COLIN OF CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES

Update and question.
I took the transaxle to a local machinist who put new threads in both holes. Since the holes open into the gear carrier, and since the gear carrier does not easily separate from the transaxle housing (all those bearings have to be pressed out and back in, right?), he determined to leave the tabs on the inserts. He said it was unlikely they'd break free on their own, provided I never tightened the bolts all the way to them. Which, given the length of the bolts and the length of the inserts, also seems unlikely. In retrospect, I wonder if I shouldn't use a needle-nose pliers to pull them off and out the nose cone side. Then again, I have a history of dropping leettle leettle pieces where they shouldn't go and perhaps should leave well enough alone.
Thoughts?

whc03grady wrote:Update and question.
I took the transaxle to a local machinist who put new threads in both holes. Since the holes open into the gear carrier, and since the gear carrier does not easily separate from the transaxle housing (all those bearings have to be pressed out and back in, right?), he determined to leave the tabs on the inserts. He said it was unlikely they'd break free on their own, provided I never tightened the bolts all the way to them. Which, given the length of the bolts and the length of the inserts, also seems unlikely. In retrospect, I wonder if I shouldn't use a needle-nose pliers to pull them off and out the nose cone side. Then again, I have a history of dropping leettle leettle pieces where they shouldn't go and perhaps should leave well enough alone.
Thoughts?

Fascinating conundrum . . .
I would do a depth test (fingers only) with a longer bolts. Thread them to contact the tang. Mark the bolt length at the washer seat (the surface of the hole on the outside of the nose cone. Now compare this length to the bolts you have. Your bolts of course need to be shorter, by at least a full thread count if not two. You can stack washers to achieve this.

My vote is to absolutely leave well enough alone, because helicoil/timesert steel will be more than capable of turning any number of transaxle components into shredded junk.
Colin