Shift Rod Bushings

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hambone
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Shift Rod Bushings

Post by hambone » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:31 pm

1969 Bus started popping out of 4th on a highway run, then stopped doing it. I checked the coupler, no play. The play seems to be the rear shift rod bushing, as I can move the shift rod around quite a bit due to looseness.
Tell me, must I live with this until I pull the engine and transmission some fun day?
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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:46 pm

Bushing? Passenger or engine side of coupling?

I've never been aware of any. Bus specific?


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:08 pm

hambone wrote:1969 Bus started popping out of 4th on a highway run, then stopped doing it. I checked the coupler, no play. The play seems to be the rear shift rod bushing, as I can move the shift rod around quite a bit due to looseness.
Tell me, must I live with this until I pull the engine and transmission some fun day?
It's the transmission.
The bushings are designed for lots of compliance to handle engine transaxle movement.
Colin
(change transaxle oil and drive sensibly. when popping out gets habitual, either rebuild or bungee cord the shifter in 4th. Then you will have to supply a 3/4 shifter fork and sliding hub when you do take it in for a rebuild)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by hambone » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:24 pm

Here is the history:
I drive the car over hill and dale without any transmission issues. It has very rarely (1ce a year?) popped out 4th since I've owned it. The oil is fresh.
The only thing unusual I did beforehand was to drive it through a carwash the previous day. It was cold with unseasonable snow. I haven't been driving it on the highway much lately, mostly around town.

All is well, then on the interstate onramp and up to highway speeds, it pops out of gear 4 or 5 times, pretty much right in a row but gently.
Then it completely stops doing this. I drive it for 3 hours over hill and dale, climbing long grades and changing gears. Then into to forest and camp, days later all the way home no problems at all, up to 70 mph no problem.

The symptoms are weird and I'd like to try to understand what's happening.
Transmission rebuild, I can't afford that. Bungee in 4th? That's crap.
http://www.aatransaxle.com/price_list.htm
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:26 pm

Bungee crap, but cost effective.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:29 pm

hambone wrote:Bungee in 4th? That's crap.
. . . . . scene opens at twilight along a lonesome road. The wind is whistling. Sounds of whimpering from the silhouette of a patient VW bus. Voices come into focus:

"Honey, she's shivering, we have to get going."
"No."
"Come on, I told you I would never tell anyone, I promise, that you used a bungee cord."
"Bungee? That's crap."
"Oh, I agreeee, honey, it is a shame, but we have to get back to civilization, she really is cold."
"Nope. That's crap."

:flower: :flower:
shouldabeenaplaywrite
(I agree, by the way, I have been dreadfully uneven with my deleting of crap in the technical forums.
If you would like a month's moderator status in every technical forum, we could do a spring cleaning, what say you??)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:43 pm

Ai yi yi!

Still a bargain compared to the prices of some of those other transaxles.


neal
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hambone
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by hambone » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:44 pm

That could be you in that story too you know.
Come on tell me why it would do it once and then not again. Picking up Eva just now, I drove in 4th at 40 no problem. Is the slop in the shift rod the smoking gun?
I did have to start it in gear last month when my clutch cable failed. And it's the original trans to the bus. And it sometimes crunches when you go into gear too fast.
Nothing lasts forever I guess, 43 + years, a good run.
Can I still trust this thing in the mountains?
I'm going to check the gear oil tomorrow.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:55 pm

I wouldn't sweat it. Gretchen had no sychros in first and second, and third gear was the favorite to pop out, although second was also a problem for any length of time. Transaxle was essentially like that from purchase. So things for you have an opportunity to go years on the bungee I would bet.

I did finally change the oil, about a month before it completely died. Changing the oil made no improvements in performance, and there really wasn't any nasty scary chunky metal or anything in the old oil.

I wasn't driving it for it's final demise. But on death, it wouldn't go into any gear, and then if you got lucky and got it into a gear, good luck getting it out.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:23 pm

hambone wrote: Come on tell me why it would do it once and then not again.
Is the slop in the shift rod the smoking gun?
Well, you see, it's like this, every tickety time time you shift, the little dog teeth get to choose where they are going to go up the slider teeth. There are some teeth that have been damaged from your wanton and willful abuse of the transaxle all these years, and occasionally a damaged dog tooth meets a damaged slider tooth. If there is a little ramp on the sides of both of these teeth, the torque of your attempted acceleration will cause them to throw the slider back out, overwhelming the little detent ball/spring on the shifter fork. Every time it does kick itself out of gear, you can be sure that the teetyh are being additionally damaged, so the frequency of these pop-outs will increase. But in the meantime, enjoy driving! You could have years of driving left before you need to get going on it.

Image
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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hambone
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by hambone » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:01 pm

Thanks Colin! Man that drawing is packed with information. I'd like to see the guts of a VW transaxle to really understand.
It is sad when durable things wear out. A long life though.
I get worried about the extra wear and tear mountain driving takes on it. Hopefully it can hold up another season.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by bigbore » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:34 pm

I hate it when I here the bungee word come out all that dose is destroy more of the trany and buys you only minutes of time before you are going to pull it out anyway and your core money will be out the window. the reason its pops out is the dogs are worn think of them as little reverse wedges and the harder you apply power the harder they wedge together that is why you can't pull it out of gear when you are on the gas. As the dogs ware the wedge is gone now its a square dog or more to a standard wedge so you apply power it wedges itself apart it pops out of gear. One other thing there is only three groups of three in the circle of the dog teeth on the gear that engage each other are the wide ones the others are guide teeth they do not hold power so only nine teeth are holding the gear in when you are in gear. I wished I had or could do some of the fancy graphic stuff like Colin did so I could explain it better.

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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Welcome bigbore.

I wish I knew more about how a transaxle works. I'd probably better understand your post. Never thought about the bungee hastening the demise past rebuild core value.

Although the transaxle in the ghia tended to fall out of second gear when there was the least amount of stress from acceleration. I wouldn't even notice it was out of gear until I did start to accelerate and teeth chattered.

Half of me wants to tear the old transaxle apart myself, half wants to find a fantastically exceptional transaxle rebuilder and get the core value out of it and a fresh rebuild on the shelf.


neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:42 pm

ruckman101 wrote:Welcome bigbore.

I wish I knew more about how a transaxle works. I'd probably better understand your post. Never thought about the bungee hastening the demise past rebuild core value.

Although the transaxle in the ghia tended to fall out of second gear when there was the least amount of stress from acceleration. I wouldn't even notice it was out of gear until I did start to accelerate and teeth chattered.

Half of me wants to tear the old transaxle apart myself, half wants to find a fantastically exceptional transaxle rebuilder and get the core value out of it and a fresh rebuild on the shelf.


neal
I desperately want to be led through a transaxle rebuild before I die, die, DIE.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ruckman101
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Re: Shift Rod Bushings

Post by ruckman101 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Colin, didn't you and bottomend tear into one a few years back?


neal
The slipper has no teeth.

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