Differential Side Seals

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Amskeptic
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Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:31 pm

Many of us have drooling transaxles at the center ribs under the CVs. It is an easy diagnosis if your transaxle is not hidden under decades of caked-on dirt and undercoating.

Step 1) Clean the area very well. I used a screwdriver to chip the caked-on dirt off dry (much easier to sweep up than attacking it with solvents). Wipe down your CV joints very clean and get the insides of the screws with a small screwdriver. Then I used a water-based spray degreaser (Purple Power) and a trip to the local carwash to get the minor remaining crud out of the crevasses.

Step 2) Take down just the inside CV joint on the side you are working on. Plastic bag it if you are enjoying Santa Ana winds in the sandy desert. Loosen only a 1/2 turn the two phillips screws that hold the side cover lock plate. Wipe out the inside of the drive flange until you can see the blue rubber cap. Stab it in the middle and get a screwdriver inside the center and find a pry point to pull it off (it is metal framed).

Step 3) You must remove the flange retaining circlip, it is exactly like a CV hub circlip, but in a less accessible location. An expanding circlip plier will make this easier. Use two large flat bladed screwdrivers against the side cover retainer screws (Phillips) and pry the flange off the differential drive shaft. Oil will now pour out, just put a tray under it, we like this oil leaking out to help keep the differential bearings clean.

Step 4) Even with all of your preparatory cleaning, you still have a mess. Do NOT clean this side cover lock plate! Just remove it with caution:
Image

Step 5) This is an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have. It is contaminated with grit (arrow points to threat of cataclysm):
Image

Pull out the dust seal (dust?) taking care to not allow it to get away from you and flop or catapault any muck onto the driveshaft or into the differential bearing:
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This is the offending side cover seal. You can see that even with the dust seal, dirt can get in there deep. Wipe it radially away and downward from the inside. Not nutso hospital clean, just get rid of the surface crud, visible here:
Image

Step 6) With your two largest regular blade screwdrivers, pry the side cover seal out. It will require a careful application of force. Do not jab the screwdrivers in the hole indiscriminately. Just catch the metal of the seal and pry out with both screwdrivers equally. The bottom of the side cover is a decent fulcrum for your screwdrivers:
Image

Here you can see the differential roller bearing-that-must-remain-scrupulously-clean, behind the weird split washer that looks like it was bent due to some horrible impending failure. Just make sure that this washer remains with the smaller side towards the bearing. It actually serves as a "wavy washer" to keep the flange pushing against the circlip:
Image

Slapped back in the hole:
Image

Notice how hidden it appears once it is in place:
Image

Step 7)
Image
*clean the dust seal, taking care to scrape out the valleys so they can enjoy a whole new era of preventing road splash from reaching your new side cover seals,
*clean and tap flat the circlip you pried out (if you bent it up dead, find a spare CV circlip)
*clean the plastic spacer and the lock plate (whose paint may shed off in plasticky-looking shards)
*clean the machined, CV-facing side of the flange, but leave a nice sheen of grease on the outside surface, like a seasoned cast iron skillet, to prevent rust
*stuff the differential driveshaft/bearing area with a paper towel (that will quickly load up with transaxle oil, good) and clean the side cover all the way out past the lock plate retaining screw holes.

Step 8 ) Place the new side cover seal in the opening with your hand to make sure it is true:
Image

I have a nightmare sandrail style seal that I may never be able to remove ever again, it is twice the thickness of the stock seal:
Image

Tap into place with a 46mm axle nut socket. We are using this big socket not to get a dead center knock-it-in, but to allow us to have plenty of contact area between the wall of the socket and the edge of the seal as we tap it in. I have received word that if you hit it dead center the seal will bend inward at the center. As a matter of fact, any seal needs to be driven in at the outside walls. Just make it flush with opening, or slightly (1/2 mm) protruding if you also have miles and miles of extra sealing depth like my sand seal and would like to have a more positive contact with the dust seal when you cinch down the phillips screws in Step 9:
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Here is my seal installed with a millimeter protrusion:
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Step 9) Slap the clean dust seal in the hole and follow it with the plastic sleeve and lockplate. Screw down the phillips screws to "snug +"

Step 10) Apply a coat of moly grease to the sealing surface of the flange and the splines in the middle. Slide onto the differential drive shaft splines and tap into position with a 36mm socket:

Image

The best method to then get the circlip on is to set the open end of the circlip against the splines of the differential driveshaft. Apply the ends of the expanding plier to the edges of the circlip while resting it lightly against the driveshaft. Firmly hold your other hand's fingers to the inside radius of the circlip and be ready to push down hard as you pry open the edges of the circlip with the pliers. It will dutifully slide over the end of the driveshaft. Drive it into its groove with a screwdriver blade and make sure it is home (the edges should be as close as they were before you tried to get it off)
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Step 11) Install new blue cap with flat surface out.
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Step 12) Ready to reinstall the CV and notice that cleanliness is good:
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Installed and Complete. No more drooling gear oil mucking up the transaxle and misting the engine.
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Step 13) Replenish transaxle oil, right?
Wrong.
Do the other side now THEN replenish transaxle oil, to the bottom of the fill line.
Image
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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dtrumbo
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by dtrumbo » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:24 pm

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! My Beetle drips from this very spot and I was convinced I had to have the transaxle completely rebuilt to stop the leak. Now I know, thanks to you, that I can do this repair myself. Where did you find the new seals and caps? I've looked around and have come up short which furthered my assumption I had to have this repair done professionally.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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Amskeptic
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:26 pm

dtrumbo wrote:Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! My Beetle drips from this very spot and I was convinced I had to have the transaxle completely rebuilt to stop the leak. Now I know, thanks to you, that I can do this repair myself. Where did you find the new seals and caps? I've looked around and have come up short which furthered my assumption I had to have this repair done professionally.
Two new (sand) seals and two new caps cost me $12.00 cash no tax here in Yuma AZ at the feverish sandrail offroad buggy shop. I believe there are listings in our favorite catalogues, but if not, ask Darryl.
Colinyerwlecome
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by ruckman101 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:25 pm

Are you trying to make sure my bus stays off the road another week?

Thanks. I was so tempted to loosen that plate with the funky plastic thing under it. Later. Sounds like I want a replacement funky plastic thing first.



neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:24 am

ruckman101 wrote:Are you trying to make sure my bus stays off the road another week?

Thanks. I was so tempted to loosen that plate with the funky plastic thing under it. Later. Sounds like I want a replacement funky plastic thing first.



neal
You can remove it now. Helps you to clean thoroughly before you muck up the internals with your surgery. There are ways to get nasty seals out with a chisel, but after seeing your bell housing , I am not sure I want to load up your wagon with hair-trigger howitzers.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:27 pm

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run this procedure on my used transaxle going into the ghia. Already committed to the input shaft seal. Hope that was the correct term.

I have the caps for inside the flange, so I guess I still need the side cover seals, dust seal and plastic spacers?



neal
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hambone
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by hambone » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:07 pm

I did this procedure with Colin a few years back. Eh it still weeps oil, but not enough to lower the level. Worn parts...but hey at least it's not serious.
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by asiab3 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:24 pm

…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?

That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:39 pm

asiab3 wrote:
…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?

That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
The absence of the intermediate dust seal is supposed to be for the later buses where the factory was taking parts off right and left to "save money".

If yours is an early bus, and the transaxle has been rebuilt or dorked with, you might not have one.

Yes, the sand seal is a tough one, and we both best hope it is a solid reliable long-lasting seal . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by asiab3 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:29 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
…an intermediate dust seal that you may or may not have.
So if we don't have it, is that a sign that someone was in there previously?

That super-sand-seal was a bear to drive in compared to other seals I've done.
The absence of the intermediate dust seal is supposed to be for the later buses where the factory was taking parts off right and left to "save money".

If yours is an early bus, and the transaxle has been rebuilt or dorked with, you might not have one.

Yes, the sand seal is a tough one, and we both best hope it is a solid reliable long-lasting seal . . .
Colin
Trans mounts have dealership undercoating all over them, which makes me think it's never been out. That being said, the old side seal had an Audi logo on it; I haven't seen that on any other original parts on this bus yet. The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.

I enjoyed the job overall, so I might source a standard size seal for the other side in the name of science. Now we have more time for ball joint boots and paint chips in a few weeks hmmm?

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:52 am

asiab3 wrote: The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.
If we are talking about the same parts, the 091 prefix does not work on an 002 transaxle. The CV flange has a 42mm diameter on the 002s, and a 45mm diameter on the 091s.

The "dust seal" or whatever they call it, doesn't seem to show up in the Bentley exploded picture, but is supposed to be a 002 prefix and covers all IRS transaxles. Need research.
asiab3 wrote: Now we have more time for ball joint boots and paint chips in a few weeks hmmm?
Robbie
Ayep. Especially the ball joint boots. I am happy to leave you windshieldless if it comes to stopping rust on the windshield channel. Have rust-catalyzing primer!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by asiab3 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:12 am

Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote: The old seal also had an 091 part number, which makes me think it was replaced at some time.
If we are talking about the same parts, the 091 prefix does not work on an 002 transaxle. The CV flange has a 42mm diameter on the 002s, and a 45mm diameter on the 091s.

The "dust seal" or whatever they call it, doesn't seem to show up in the Bentley exploded picture, but is supposed to be a 002 prefix and covers all IRS transaxles. Need research.
Apologies, only the plastic cover had the 091 part number-

Image

Exact number as this guy:
http://www.germansupply.com/home/custom ... 303&page=6

--

Some thoughts that I had that may help or even intrigue those about to attempt this:

- I could not get two screwdrivers to get enough bite on the flange to pull it off without stressing the plastic cover, so I went the GermanSupply pictorial route and used this overly-expensive puller I bought last year that I can't return. Stack an 18mm socket and a broken window crank handle under the puller for extra reach. Your milage may vary.

Image

- My 46mm socket seemed small for the seal, so I got it started with it, but had to finish the drive with a 1/2 inch socket extension (female end to the seal, male end to the mallet) and do several hundred light taps circling around the perimeter of the seal. I didn't like the way the large socket would bend the seal inward.

- If you bend your cir clip slightly coming out, it will go back in but it will not seat properly. I'm guessing we do not want that. I feel like it should fit comfortably in the groove, with the circumference equal around the perimeter. My left side clip wouldn't QUITE seal all the way, so when my frustrated blood-starved arm muscles said "THAT WILL WORK FINE LETS GO" I had to channel my inner Heinz and take the clip back out to inspect it. Yep. Bent. A quick bend and it was perfectly flat once again.

- Make sure you have a 17mm fill/drain plug device before you do this. Now I'm biking around San Fernando Valley trying to find one to finish and drive to work in San Diego tomorrow. :scratch:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:41 pm

asiab3 wrote: - I could not get two screwdrivers to get enough bite on the flange to pull it off without stressing the plastic cover,
I used the phillips screws that hold the plastic retainer as my fulcrums.
asiab3 wrote: - My 46mm socket seemed small for the seal, so I got it started with it, but had to finish the drive with a 1/2 inch socket extension (female end to the seal, male end to the mallet) and do several hundred light taps circling around the perimeter of the seal. I didn't like the way the large socket would bend the seal inward.
I will edit the copy. "use your 46mm socket in a circular manner to hit the edge of the seal with as much surface area as possible." It was the large radius that I was after, not hitting the whole seal dead center.
asiab3 wrote: - Make sure you have a 17mm fill/drain plug device before you do this. Now I'm biking around San Fernando Valley trying to find one to finish and drive to work in San Diego tomorrow. :scratch:
Robbie
Heck, I got a couple right here . . .
ColinOnRockInUtahGale
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by chachi » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:39 am

so you're using 189c in this, no? Weddle lists that and a plain 189, the difference being the height, of course. if you could have your choice...?
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Re: Differential Side Seals

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:59 pm

chachi wrote:so you're using 189c in this, no? Weddle lists that and a plain 189, the difference being the height, of course. if you could have your choice...?
That looks to be correct. I tried to install the 189c (17mm, THICK) on my '69 and they were a chore. A friend and I put the 189 (10mm, regular) seals on his '68 and they went in much easier. Both kept the output shafts dry.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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