Don's Engine Refurbish: 10,500 Miles Later, Running Great!

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sped372
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Post by sped372 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:02 am

Sounds promising... best of luck to you!
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

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Sean Gallagher
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Post by Sean Gallagher » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:57 pm

Good find on the shop Don! I'm discovering we still have a few residual VW related folks and/or businesses operating out here in Ohio. Get a few business cards when you go back! (I'm available to 'man the jack' or the 17mm on the install.)
1957 Oval (36HP 6 volt)
1959 SO-23 Westfalia (36HP 6 volt)
1978 Kombi (6 volts too many!)

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:21 pm

Thanks, Sean! Be ready for "the call" when I'm ready to put the engine back together. I think another set of eyes watching to make sure it all goes together correctly would be a good insurance policy.
Don

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78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:34 pm

I picked up my parts tonight. The crank cleaned up nicely, and the new #3 bearing is installed. With the assembly lube on the crank, it turns smoothly and easily.

I've assembled the crankshaft, flywheel, pressure plate, and fan to take to the local shop to be balanced tomorrow.

It appears that I've received a reground stock camshaft. There are VW markings on the gear, and it is riveted to the camshaft itself. Two questions:

1. How can I verify that this is the correct, hydraulic lifter cam? (I understand the part # on the gear [021 109 111C] is worthless???)

2. Is there a concern running a reground VW cam with new hydraulic lifters?
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:27 am

Just got back from the local shop....

My rods are all now matched within .1 grams total and end-for-end. :cheers:

Pistons are another story.... From the scale:

#1 - 733.2g
#2 - 728.3g
#3 - 738.5g
#4 - 733.4g

Erring on the side of caution, they did not know how/where they could get 10g out of #3 to match #2, so they did not touch any of them.

Hmmm... what now???
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:50 am

vwlover77 wrote:Just got back from the local shop....

My rods are all now matched within .1 grams total and end-for-end. :cheers:

Pistons are another story.... From the scale:

#1 - 733.2g
#2 - 728.3g
#3 - 738.5g
#4 - 733.4g

Erring on the side of caution, they did not know how/where they could get 10g out of #3 to match #2, so they did not touch any of them.

Hmmm... what now???
Couldn't they add material to that one? Or a weight or something?
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
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Dual Batteries,
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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:44 pm

vwlover77 wrote: Pistons are another story.... From the scale:

#1 - 733.2g
#2 - 728.3g
#3 - 738.5g
#4 - 733.4g

Erring on the side of caution, they did not know how/where they could get 10g out of #3 to match #2, so they did not touch any of them.

Hmmm... what now???
Bring em back. Tell them they can go to town on the bosses under the wrist pins, even to the point of following the wrist pin bore radius up just a tad, and they can also tear up the skirts from the bosses on down to the lowest point of the skirts as long as they do not make the lowest part of the skirts any narrower than they already are. Tell them to stay away from the expanders if they should happen to be close by.

If the wrist pin hole is facing you, you can see the skirts to each side, I am doing just one side of the piston:
.................................
..................
..............
...........
........
.....

to the below is OK:

..................................
........
......
.....
.....
.....

Also, try to match total weights by putting the lightest piston with the heaviest rod/wrist pin, and vice versa. In a bad pinch, I have been known to lighten the small end of the rod to help a heavy piston. Seeing as it is just above the centerline of the piston, it will not affect the reciprocating balance down at the lower end. Also, this is open to catcalls of scorn, but I also will match pistons across from each other, i.e. if you had two pistons close to each other in weight but separated from the other two by 5 grams or something awful, I'd make them an opposing pair, 1/3 or 2/4. Prevail, Don, be creative and smart.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:26 pm

Well, poopy. :cyclopsani:

Now that I know the weights of my pistons from the local machine shop, I did a fun little math exercise. I added the weight of each piston to the original weight of its connecting rod (based on the numbers I found written on the rods).

Guess what? The assembly weights of piston and rod combined did not vary by more than 2g between cylinders.

Granted, that's not balanced end to end, but I didn't think that was too bad for a GEX engine. At least they actually weighed and matched parts!

Now, I've got perfectly matched rods, but pistons with 10g difference!

But, the local shop is going to give machining the pins a try....
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:02 pm

I got all my parts back from the balancing shop last night. I believe they did a very nice job, certainly good enough for a stock engine! It was obvious that the counterweighted crank had never been balanced after it had been built. It needed a LOT of material removed from two of the welded-on counterweights.

Also, they found one rod journal without the oil holes chamfered like the other three rod journals, so they fixed that for me. Strange, huh?

Anyway, in order to get the pistons to balance, they did end up machining the hole in the wristpins at both ends of the three heavy pistons (and milling the entire underside of the heaviest piston, too.)

I don't know why this would happen, but the wrist pins that were cut are not as tight in the pistons as they used to be. They were a very light fit before - easily pushed out by hand. I feel less resistance moving the pins side to side and rotating them as I did before, and compared to the uncut one. If I remove the circlips and turn the pistons so the pin can fall out, they do begin to slowly make their escape. They don't just fall out, though. (I did put some oil on all of the pins since the three that were cut were dry from being cleaned up after the cutting but the uncut one was not. That did increase the amount of resistance I feel.)

At this point, my plan is to go ahead and install them.

Tonight, I got the crankshaft built up and installed in the left-hand side of the case. I also installed the distributor gear and distributor. Everything spun as smooth as silk.....

..... until I installed the camshaft. Something is wrong with its gear which causes it to bind up. :pale: ( Frickin' "rebuilt" parts :pukeleft:) At first, I wasn't sure if it was the cam gear or the crank gear causing the problem, so I marked the binding spot on the cam gear with marker and then reinstalled it so it was NOT properly indexed on the crank gear. It bound up at exactly the same spot on the cam gear, so I know the crank gear is OK.

Well, I guess I'll be having another conversation with my engine builder. Lordy, I want him OUT of my life!!!!
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:34 pm

vwlover77 wrote: camshaft. Something is wrong with its gear which causes it to bind up. :pale: ( Frickin' "rebuilt" parts :pukeleft:) At first, I wasn't sure if it was the cam gear or the crank gear causing the problem, so I marked the binding spot on the cam gear with marker and then reinstalled it so it was NOT properly indexed on the crank gear. It bound up at exactly the same spot on the cam gear, so I know the crank gear is OK.

Well, I guess I'll be having another conversation with my engine builder. Lordy, I want him OUT of my life!!!!
Is this the builder-supplied gear photographed elsewhere in this forum?
What is the gear # on your "performance" camshaft, and what is the gear # of this snadblasted hydraulic job? You generally have to re-use the gear that is matched to your crankcase. If you have a larger gear on the new stock hydraulic camshaft than your old performance camshaft, that would explain the binding to a point. If it is too bindy at one spot and too loose at another, you might have a slightly bent camshaft. Support at cam bearing journals 1 and 3 and measure 2 for run-out. .004 is the max. You might have to drill the gear off the new camshaft and stick the performance camshaft gear on in its place. . . . . . demand careful drilling of the rivets, and careful spot-facing and counterboring of the holes.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:25 pm

The gear is the one in the pictures in the "Cam Identification" thread. It is marked with a "0" size, as I suspect the performance cam gear was (but I don't have it anymore - the builder does).

I noticed that the cam gear was engaging off the edge of the crank gear because of the position of the crank in the case (too far toward the fan end). I corrected that, and got significant improvement, but still a slight stick at that one spot. (Mind you, this is turning the crank by lightly pushing on the crank counterweights - no flywheel mounted.)

After examining the gear carefully, I could see a mark on one of the aluminum gear teeth where the crank gear was abrading it, causing the stickiness.

I very carefully shaped this area with a small file, and the problem was solved. The crankshaft turns smoothly with no stickiness at all.

The camshaft had no noticeable lash, and stayed put in its bearings while turning the crank in both directions.

Unfortunately, I was oustide working when the suggestion to measure the runout was made. Too late now, as the case halves are assembled and I'm trying to get the endplay set!
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:34 pm

Well, I now have what I would describe as a "short block".

Case halves together, endplay set to .003", front oil seal, flywheel, oil pump, and distributor installed. The crank turns as smooth and easy as butter (thick butter, that is!). I would have kept going, but I don't have a ring compressor - I'm going to borrow one from Autozone.

Unfortunately, family commitments mean my work this weekend is pretty much at its end. It does feel pretty good to be at this point, though.
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Sean Gallagher
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Post by Sean Gallagher » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:35 pm

Way to go Don! Just like a Brown's field goal in OT :cheers:
1957 Oval (36HP 6 volt)
1959 SO-23 Westfalia (36HP 6 volt)
1978 Kombi (6 volts too many!)

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vwlover77
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Post by vwlover77 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:42 pm

Thanks, Sean! But now I feel like the opposing team has just scored a TD on the post-goal kickoff (not OT, of course!)....

I cleaned the oil from my pistons and wristpins today to test the fit of the pins in the pistons, and they all drop clean through the pistons without slowing down. That means they are worn out and need to be replaced. I think I just wasted my money on having them weight-matched. :pale:

If my paperwork is accurate, they've only got about 30K miles on them!
Don

---------------------------
78 Westy
71 Super Beetle Convertible Autostick

"When we let our compassion go, we let go of whatever claim we have to the divine." - Bruce Springsteen

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:33 pm

vwlover77 wrote:That means they are worn out and need to be replaced. I think I just wasted my money on having them weight-matched. :pale:
What about knurling the bores? Old school method of reducing clearaces.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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