Bus 1 has issues...

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71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:10 pm

Colin, didn't see your message about heads until the other day and I have not spoken with Adrian since I received the engine.
Robby, yes real glad we are out of the fire line. Feeling like fall here suddenly which alway kicks off a ticket to Maui in a month to squeeze out a little more summer. :cheers:
As far as parts needed, really just tin. Another dog house cooler, sled tins, another thermostat and generator if I want to go that far with the back up engine. I am real close and in no hurry to complete the back up engine. I'll probably get what I need next spring at a swap.
Will be done assembling it tonight. Then hope to have it in and running by end of the week.

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 am

Ok here's an update. I have the longblock all assembled and now in Bus 1. I did the 20 minutes break in. But have not driven it yet. It's not running right just yet. I think cylinder 3 is not firing. It's not idleing well once the choke kicks off and it seems to be out of balance because it's not firing on all cylinders. Checked the valves and they are fine. Replaced the whole distributor, cap and wires just to see if it made a difference, it didn't. Replace #3 spark plug, no difference. Also replaced the fuel pump, no difference.
I don't think it's a vacuum leak. All manifold boots etc are all brand new. My timing is not worked out yet. Hard to time it when it won't fire on all cylinders. However I have twisted the dist both ways quite a bit while it's running and can't seem to find the right spot. Seems like it wants to be advanced quite a bit to run. I need to keep on the gas to keep it running. Idle cut off is working fine. New volksbitz carb.
I feel like if I can get 3 to fire I can get it running properly. There is spark at the plug wire.
I had a very similar thing happen a couple years back and it was because I had it retarded too much and was timing it wrong. I know it's not timed right now but don't think it's just timing this time. I have not done a compression test but it is a brand new longblock and I don't think that's the problem.
When I say 3 isn't firing it's because when I pull off the plug wires one by one, 3 doesn't seem to make any difference when pulled.
I'd like to get this running well Before Colin comes next summer....in other words this week.
Any ideas, suggestions or directions to go would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:59 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 am
New volksbitz carb.
I feel like if I can get 3 to fire I can get it running properly.
don't think it's just timing this time.
I have not done a compression test but it is a brand new longblock and I don't think that's the problem.
Adjust the valves.
Clean/gap plugs (yeah, pull the plug and look at it! Is it showing signs of actual combustion?)
Compression test is mandatory, warm engine, do it.
Swap an entire wire/connector with #4. Does 3 remain dead or does the problem go over to #4?
Have you dorked with the mixture? Feel free to do so, just to see if #3 likes richer or leaner (even if the other cylinders do not like it, this is a temporary experiment). Make sure to count mixture screw turns to the bottom, so you have a base line to return to.
Do not assume anything, and do not assume that the intake manifold gasket is not leaking.
Sorry.
Report back!
ColinInSavannahGA
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:07 pm

Ok will mess with it some more. I switched both wires and plug for 3 and no change.
I'll mess with the fuel mixture and probably spray some carb cleaner around to look for leaks.
I'll update a bit later. Wcfvw69, I didn't see you post if you posted.

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:17 pm

Ok folks. I believe I found the problem. Sprayed some carb cleaner around the 3/4 intake manifold and bingo, a leak somewhere in there.
I'm heading back out after lunch to see exactly where it is and I'll report back.

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:45 pm

Well the update is that it still runs poorly. I tighten down the manifold on one side. It was snug but I tightened it another 1/4 turn or so. Then spraying carb cleaner in the area didn't make any difference. I may experiment some more with the carb cleaner and see if I can spot any other leaks.
Speaking of leaks, this is also leaking oil. Several drops when I park it. Looks like it's coming from the rear somewhere. Can't tell exactly but might be behind the pulley. I'll see is I can take off the pulley and see what's going on. If it's leaking behind the pulley, is there a seal to replace?
Took it for its first 10 mile drive. It made it but lacking a bit of power and it will die if you don't feather the gas a bit after you let off the gas.
I'll keep you updated as I get further into it.

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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:49 am

Another small update. Spraying more carb cleaner around didn't seem to make any difference now that I tightened the manifold some more.
Been reading about leaky engines at rear pulley area and I am wondering if I put the wrong after market pulley on. I put a Empi sand seal pulley without the sand seal. It's what the parts store sold me. I don't think it has the grooves in it though to sling the oil back in. Also sounds like maybe the rings need to be seated better? Not sure but this is a new one to me.
That's where I'm at now. Still doesn't want to hold a steady idle very well and I'm sure my timing is off.

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asiab3
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by asiab3 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:41 am

New engines with a vacuum retard timing setting might fumble in idle a bit due to the timing not producing as much power at idle to overcome the tight tolerances of a new engine assembly. Use the big brass speed screw on the carb to increase the idle speed; a fast idle is better for a new engine than a slow or lopey idle.

As far as cylinder #3 goes, have you gotten a visual on the spark plug and performed a compression test? Compare the plug to the others for clues. Once the plugs are out, I would clean them and swap the #'s 2 and 3 plugs to make sure the plug itself isn't faulty. Does the cylinder fire above 2,000 RPM?

I'm not familiar with the sand seal mechanism, but I would definitely want a stock style grooves for oil slinging and crankcase ventilation. Got one on a spare engine somewhere?

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:35 am

Thanks Robbie. It's not the plugs, I have already switched them. I think it is firing on 3 now but not tuned up well at all yet. The big brass screw, idle adjustment isn't making any difference when I loosen it up. It will if I tighten it down though. (Not making it tight just turning clockwise until it dies).
I might try another old stock pulley I have around here. Last time I did that though I marked tdc wrong and it cause me all sorts of grief. Appreciate the advice. Wish you or Colin were nearby. :-)

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Amskeptic
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:13 pm

71whitewesty wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:35 am
Thanks Robbie. It's not the plugs, I have already switched them. I think it is firing on 3 now but not tuned up well at all yet. The big brass screw, idle adjustment isn't making any difference when I loosen it up. It will if I tighten it down though. (Not making it tight just turning clockwise until it dies).
I might try another old stock pulley I have around here. Last time I did that though I marked tdc wrong and it cause me all sorts of grief. Appreciate the advice. Wish you or Colin were nearby. :-)

The stock pulley has those neato spirals working in conjunction with very fine tolerances at the slinger. I cannot speak for aftermarket pulleys.

Have we a compression test result on your engine? Prevail, Sean!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:52 pm

No compression check yet. I just started it and swapped spots with bus 2. I believe the compression is good just the way it feels now compared to Bus 2. But still not running right. Runs much better when it's cold and the choke is still on.
And the truth of the matter is my pressure gauge has never been taken out of the package. I have never ever done a compression check, ever. Jeezus, you guys are going to make me open that thing up aren't you?!

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wcfvw69
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by wcfvw69 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:40 pm

My bet is a vacuum leak or a crossed spark plug wire. I've crossed spark plug wires before and NEW they weren't. After double checking myself I had in fact crossed two wires. Is this a dual port or single port?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

71whitewesty
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by 71whitewesty » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:10 pm

It's a dual port. I have switched the wires too. They are on correct. A vacuum leak sounds right to me too. It's much more noticeable when it's warmed up and choke is off.

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asiab3
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by asiab3 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:33 pm

I KNOW that 71whitewesty knows his plug wire orders, after we perked up White Westy #3 with a correction in that department. ;)

If it runs better on choke, give it more fuel! Go two full turns out on the small mixture screw and see how it feels. If good, good! If no good, turn it back! Just don't lose count; we're counting on you.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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wcfvw69
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Re: Bus 1 has issues...

Post by wcfvw69 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:25 am

71whitewesty wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:10 pm
It's a dual port. I have switched the wires too. They are on correct. A vacuum leak sounds right to me too. It's much more noticeable when it's warmed up and choke is off.
Make sure your carb manifold boots are slid over to the stops on the cast intake manifolds that bolt to the head. I screwed that up one time too! I didn't slide them all the way over to the correct position and had similar symptoms. Spray the cast manifolds where they bolt to the head with something like carb cleaner to see if maybe the leak is there.

I also agree with Robbie in that your should adjust your carb. 2.5 turns out from closed on the volume and bypass screw is a baseline setting. My buses volume screw is out 3.5 because that's what the engine liked.

What number Bosch distributor are you running? The spark plug wire locations on the distributor cap are different on the SVDA and DVDA distributors after 1971 vs.1970 and before Bosch distributors.

Image

^^ This picture is 1971 and later Bosch SVDA and DVDA spark plug wire orientation

Image

^^ 1970 and before distributors
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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