The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:54 am

asiab3 wrote:I've been feeling pretty dang depressed about everything on this engine that other people need to touch. I got my rotating assembly back from the balancer, with the crank pulley in a ziplock bag. This is the actual conversation I had with the monkey at the front counter.

"But isn't the pulley part of the rotating assembly?"
"Well yeah!"
"Then why didn't you balance it?"
"We don't balance the pulley."
"But didn't you charge me to balance the complete rotating assembly?"
"Well yeah!"
"So then why don't you balance the pulley"?
"It isn't part of the rotating assembly."
Robbie, this pulley balance is actually very important for the health of the engine, especially the #4 main bearing.
Do you see little metal weight(s) crimped inside the outer pulley edge?
Can you establish that the pulley does not have run-out? There are two directions for run-out.
One is the classic wobble from people who try to pry it off the engine. This is wicked.
The other is radial runout that makes the belt loosen/tighten/loosen/tighten. This is even more wicked.

Did you just walk out huffily, or did you say,
"I'll pick it up next week.
By the way, get rid of the run-out before you re-balance it with the crankshaft,
thanx."
asiab3 wrote: And repacking the CVs will give my mind the serenity it needs to track down an oil cooler not made in China.
Good luck with that. I will happily take any used factory cooler sitting anywhere in a garage pile under the bench. The quality is good enough that you can:
a) fill it with gasoline, slosh around and drain through a white paper towel. If any metal flakes, you can either reject it, or be ready for an extremely comprehensive wash program.
b) pressure test to 80 psi.
Cleaning can commence with a mild air pressure + solvent wash, this is to disturb all internal sedimentation in the passages, then have it cold-tanked at a machine shop (request specifically !! :cyclopsani: !! that it not be tanked with any sandblasted parts? like? duh?,
then carb spray + shake & shake rinse until it comes out clean on a tell-tale paper towel.
That's serenity for ya, right there.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:36 pm

I had a MUCH longer response typed out; I'll just give you the shortened version.

Got some actual face time with the machinist today. The desk monkey… well you saw our last conversation.

The machinist had the nerve to "suddenly remember" that he didn't balance my pressure plate after all. They charged me $150 to balance the COMPLETE ROTATING ASSEMBLY.

The machinist's excuse for not touching the pulley:
"It's not a perfect fit with the woodruff key so there's no way to tell if it will be in the same place every time."
He would not touch it for any amount of money- not that I would give it to him.

Now I need a third machine shop.

It's like a Race to the Top of who can dishonor these cars the most. Dietrich and Albrecht and Otto and Jürgen used to feed their families by caring about these cars in the factory, and the engines lasted fine with horribly lean jetting and cruel novice drivers. Now the "conventional wisdom" is that a weekend putterer can't go more than fifty thousand miles on an engine? I refuse to believe this, and I really want to know what a cared-for engine can do for me.

I am out of money and patience. I'm taking a hiatus. Must drive this heartless watercooled sedan through some normally-beautiful mountain switchbacks this weekend, while every poorly timed automatic upshift punches me in the gut a little more.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:37 am

asiab3 wrote: machinist "suddenly remember"(ed) that he didn't balance my pressure plate
excuse for not touching the pulley:
"It's not a perfect fit with the woodruff key so there's no way to tell if it will be in the same place every time." He would not touch it for any amount of money- not that I would give it to him.
You did get a refund, yes? He must have blanched when he realized that you were more sophisticated than he thought. Do you see drilling marks on your crankshaft and flywheel?

Please provide a dry emotionless review to the CA BBB, for the sake of all the human beings who must deal with the machinist after you.
It is literally your today's responsibility to this 14 billion year experiment in Existence.

asiab3 wrote: Now I need a third machine shop.
It's like a Race to the Top (bottom, strictly bottom-ed) of who can dishonor these cars the most. Dietrich and Albrecht and Otto and Jürgen used to feed their families by caring about these cars in the factory, and the engines lasted fine with horribly lean jetting and cruel novice drivers. Now the "conventional wisdom" is that a weekend putterer can't go more than fifty thousand miles on an engine? I refuse to believe this, and I really want to know what a cared-for engine can do for me.
Chloe now has 160,862 miles (about 50,000 miles on the Bookwus engine rebuild) with 42,112 miles on the Slapped On Used Yuma Cylinder Heads that have puttered about the entire country in some pretty grueling temperatures. I do not see why a carefully maintained engine could not give you 100,000 miles. Why, here is a video clip just after a 121* traverse of Death Valley:

Image

asiab3 wrote: I am out of money and patience. I'm taking a hiatus. Must drive this heartless watercooled sedan through some normally-beautiful mountain switchbacks this weekend, while every poorly timed automatic upshift punches me in the gut a little more.
Yeah good. That'll recharge your motivation in a hurry. I had a 1990 Passat automatic that used to hang at 3,500 rpm in 3rd, slam into 4th, then bang-lock the torque converter to a ridiculously slovenly 1,200 rpm in "fuel economy overdrive", just the worst shifting I have ever experienced. I pissed off Volkswagen of America so much with my incessant complaining that they gave me a brand new fire engine red VR6 Passat 5-speed. I remember the triumph with which I emptied the glovebox of that automatic and dumped the contents on the seat of the brand new VR6 in front of the sullen district manager at the dealership, CYA!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:12 pm

We're back on!

Camshaft has nay a click yet no backing out. :cheers:

51 pages of Hambone's engine rebuild thread were helpful. He went through the same deal with his pressure plate where the machinist wouldn't balance it. Seems like the last five years of Sachs Brazilian plates are not worth their salt. WolfsburgWest can get Sachs of Germany plates if you call and ask nicely. =D> The machinist has offered to rebalance my complete assembly minus pulley for free. Should I get this done and have the pulley balanced separately? I have five VW pulleys here and they all fail my runout tests. Dare I buy a "new" pulley? Drilling marks on my crank and flywheel yes.

In Hambone's thread I also saw a bit of Mike's engine build that you are currently taking care of. Very clean and detailed work. It was fun to see that and how it corresponded with old itinerary threads I've read. (ie- SVDA with 30pict3? :) ) My 30pict3 collection contains no idle cutoff solenoids. Are they available still? The one I have that doesn't work has a jet built in to it, correct? Minus your drilled out power jets, what is your base jetting for that carb?

--

So Kate's Honda Fit is throwing a fit again. Early every summer the air-conditioning craps out. And late every summer she takes it to a dealership where her buddy charges her a few hundred bucks to repair it. I usually cannot concern myself with such life decisions, but this weekend it was my ass in the (blazing hot) saddle not hers. I swapped the AC compressor clutch relay with the rear defroster relay (same part #.) I think I read about you doing the same with the Lexus fuel pump relay? We had a frigid 60* interior all the way home. All is not lost. Thank you.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:46 am

asiab3 wrote:We're back on!
a) Camshaft has nay a click yet no backing out.
b) Dare I buy a "new" pulley?
c) In Hambone's thread I also saw a bit of Mike's engine build that you are currently taking care of. Very clean and detailed work. It was fun to see that and how it corresponded with old itinerary threads I've read. (ie- SVDA with 30pict3? :) ) My 30pict3 collection contains no idle cutoff solenoids. Are they available still? The one I have that doesn't work has a jet built in to it, correct? Minus your drilled out power jets, what is your base jetting for that carb?
d) I swapped the AC compressor clutch relay with the rear defroster relay (same part #.) I think I read about you doing the same with the Lexus fuel pump relay? We had a frigid 60* interior all the way home.
e) All is not lost.
Robbie
a) How did you do it?
b) If it meets run-out and you can file exquisitely accurate 0/7.5/10 slashes like original, and paint it after killing the cad 2 plating that does not allow paint to adhere to it, why not?
c) No pict 3 carb cut-off solenoid has any jetting function. It is a dumb stopper, only. My main is currently a 117. All other jetting is as 1970 30pict3 numbers in your Bentley.
d) Excellent. Every time you all are feeling coldly unresponsive and frigid, think of me. I swapped fuel pump and a/c relays, IIRC.
e) It isn't? I can get off this bridge railing?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:32 pm

Gear mesh-
I was petrified of grinding anything that would go in my engine. So I called Wolfsburg West and bought one size of every cam and gear I didn't have, (+1, +3, and +6; +5 not available.) The +4 cam of all of them gave me zero perceptible lash when dry and no walking out when lightly greased. 1-3 gave me nearly identical lash (tactically) though I did not measure them with a dial gauge because I could feel and hear the click. They were less of a click than the .006" I'm used to with valve adjustments, but still more than I think I wanted. I did not try the +6. Now to find the WW return policy…… :bom:

Pulley-
I will not put any Chinese parts on this engine. If I can find a good one, I will have it sandblasted and coated to match the tin after confirming TDC and filing if necessary. (Side note, did you ever see the picture of my aftermarket pulley that was FOURTEEN DEGREES OFF?) I have tailpipes to be blasted and backing plates to be coated as well.

Jets-
Thank you. For posterity and the readership:

Main - 112.5
Air (Bentley) - 140z
Air (WoG) - 125z
Pilot - 65

Interesting difference there. I have the 125; I'll go 140 if the plugs are sooty.

Cam bearings:
Would I gain anything by buying another set of cam bearings to get a "double thrust" cam bearing setup? I think SGKent mentioned it. Or may RayG.

You can get off that bridge. Go make sense of someone's ailing machine for them, and remember how these cars are "better than any drug high."
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:12 pm

asiab3 wrote: Gear mesh-
Wolfsburg West +4 cam
Excellent.
asiab3 wrote:Pulley-
If I can find a good one, I will have it sandblasted and coated to match the tin.
(did you ever see my aftermarket pulley that was FOURTEEN DEGREES OFF?)
By what horror of erroneous human mayhem, by what brilliant botch?
asiab3 wrote:Jets-
For posterity and the readership:
Main - 112.5
Air (Bentley) - 140z
Air (WoG) - 125z
Pilot - 65
Interesting difference there. I have the 125; I'll go 140 if the plugs are sooty.
I remember that little 112 main. Couldn't believe how whitey bleachy my plugs were.
At 117, the bleach left the outer ring of the plug, but to this day, the inside porcelain looks pretty white. Who is WoG?
Air correction primarily trims the mixture when intake air flow begins to speed up. If you have single port stock carb stock distributor, use the air correction as specified, and make a subtle distinction before you change out jets.
You can have sooty plugs and too much air correction. If your normally sooty around town plugs clean themselves on the highway at steady mid to moderate throttle for at least a tank, that is a clue on air correction perhaps being too high. If your plugs are deep tan/ almost black on highway, go directly to main jet, particularly if you cannot lean out idle mixture readily *before* at least one turn from bottoming out.
asiab3 wrote:Cam bearings:
Would I gain anything by buying another set of cam bearings to get a "double thrust" cam bearing setup? I think SGKent mentioned it. Or may RayG.
Yep. Peace of mind.
I think I mentioned it on theSamba on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 @ 2:20 am
Post subject: Re: Double Thrust Bearings

"Strangely enough, your average VW engine has only one bearing shell, of the two that make up that bearing, with thrust surfaces at the camshaft gear journal. Considering that you have a helical-cut gear there trying to drill down to the flywheel end, you'd think they would have two shells with thrust surfaces at that rear camshaft journal. So. . . many like to put in two thrust surface shells (which means you have to buy two sets of cam bearings). You will need to cut an extremely accurate tang slot in the saddle surface.
Colin"

and here on February 5, 2009 in the Type 2 Forum in the Engine Build Type 1 on page 15:

"If you use double-thrust cam bearings, you need to make a notch in the bearing shell itself, which is hair-raising. It must be properly supported on either side of the indicated spot and you must accurately deliver your blow to the edge of the bearing at the correct distance with a crisply edged small drift punch."
asiab3 wrote:You can get off that bridge. Go make sense of someone's ailing machine for them, and remember how these cars are "better than any drug high."
Robbie
We'll see how jivermo II appointment goes tomorrow . . . :blackeye:
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:56 pm

Pulley:

Image

(I know YOU know about the keyway, but that is from my Samba gallery a few years ago.)
The pulley came with my bus, along with a German 009. With my ineptitude in the first few weeks of bus ownership, I set my 1969 bus to 0* static timing. (According to Muir, that's how you timed this engine. Duh :blackeye: But when I splurged for a degree pulley I also learned about timing at max advance. Years later I found out my original pulley was out, but with the 009 being set "wrong" I was running about 30-32*btdc timing. Not enough to completely cook my engine, but not enough for Rookie Me to detect any issues. There's a mind warp.

Now the pulley lives on in BugsyMalone's engine, is she a member here yet? She drove her bug all the way from Vancouver to San Diego with this awful power pulley and no heater hoses. When she showed up with a piping hot engine in my driveway the night before crossing the Southwest last summer, I etched all new marks in it and taught her to time, adjust dwell, and better respect her engine. Then that dang pulley made it all the way to Florida and BACK with her! I think her points block broke off once in Texas, and she was rear-ended in Florida, but other than that had no issues.

Image

Image
Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote:Jets-
For posterity and the readership:
Main - 112.5
Air (Bentley) - 140z
Air (WoG) - 125z
Pilot - 65
Interesting difference there. I have the 125; I'll go 140 if the plugs are sooty.
Who is WoG?
Without Guesswork. Those handy little pamphlets dealer technicians referred to for everything from torque settings, to clearances, to which bunny ear goes through the tunnel on their daily-polished loafers.

Robbie
Waiting on rods from John @ AC.net.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Boxcar » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:09 pm

Fetching picture.
Though more than slightly troubling..?any takers as to why?
Im sure I qualify as a photo Troll for the comment.Hopefully it's just the camera angle, and sleeve cuff appearing to be next to the alt pulley! :-)
Looks like good engine awareness otherwise :-)//eric
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:42 pm

Boxcar wrote: Im sure I qualify as a photo Troll for the comment.Hopefully it's just the camera angle, and sleeve cuff appearing to be next to the alt pulley! :-)
If you follow the sleeve vertical down you'll see it's behind the hatch seal… :thumbleft:
Safety first!

Robbie
Or is it valve adjustments first, safety second?
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by Boxcar » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:07 pm

If thats safe, there you go!
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D

repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.


1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:47 pm

So my #1 exhaust lifter bore will not accept any of my lifters past the oil gallery. All 8 fit completely in any other bores, and all the lifters mic to the exact same diameter. (I can not fit any measuring tools into the bore, due to the proximity of the main bearing support.) Ever heard of this? What kind of razor blade hackery will I be committing? EDIT: It's the lifter bore that is immediately connected the oil gallery plug that I had drilled and tapped during the case inspection/align bore. Sounds like the machinist got a little overzealous with the tap. Back to machinist #2 to get him to own up and fix it.

Unrelated: When I pinged my local VW club for an engine stand rental offer, I was met with "put the two lower head studs in a vise and build it hanging." :pukeright:
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by weisswurst » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:41 am

asiab3 wrote:Pulley:


Now the pulley lives on in BugsyMalone's engine, is she a member here yet? She drove her bug all the way from Vancouver to San Diego with this awful power pulley and no heater hoses. When she showed up with a piping hot engine in my driveway the night before crossing the Southwest last summer, I etched all new marks in it and taught her to time, adjust dwell, and better respect her engine. Then that dang pulley made it all the way to Florida and BACK with her! I think her points block broke off once in Texas, and she was rear-ended in Florida, but other than that had no issues.

Robbie
Waiting on rods from John @ AC.net.
Hi Robbie, Bugsy visited us in South FL on her trip. She ended up staying a few nights to square away some tire issues and we also
got to meet a bus driving friend of her's who played in a band with a friend of ours all the way back from High School!
Small world huh? :cyclopsani:
I got to drive that lowered bus during the visit and man, it felt like it was on rocks for shocks and third gear had to be pushed into the dash to engage! :pale:, but hey it looked pretty cool! The owner told me that the bus's name was "Bender" like the futurama cartoon!


Image
( I guess I can see that beer drinking robot's face on the front of it! :scratch: )
Image

We hope she visits us now at our new digs further north!
Jeff
"I drink, therefore yes ma'am..."

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Yikes that bus looks sad to me. I don't see a jolly beer-drinking robot, I see its drunk uncle.

So about the lifter bore:
Of course Gary @ Rimco denied responsibility, and I can't prove that it was hit fault. So rather than drive 4+ hours round trip to have him fix it, I broke out Grandpa's old master cylinder hones and gave one a few spins by hand coated in engine oil. I could not feel ANY disfigurations in the bore with my finger, but there must have been something grabbing the lifter. The lifters slide in identically to the other bores now! :cheers:

I was seriously considering just buying a long block from Adrian, as he's the only one who's touched any parts of mine and not butchered something. This gives me new momentum, in that I solved a problem a) myself and b) without spending any more money! I'll gladly spend another hour cleaning the case for this much of a confidence boost.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Tale of Buddy's Hot and Thrash-y Engine(s)

Post by asiab3 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:50 pm

Updating with a prelude rant: I bought six(!) used VW pulleys, and five of them failed my runout tests. Does anyone use the proper puller for them anymore? It seems like every pulley has gratuitous axial runout in two places. Luckily I have one, even though I'm a little bummed that it doesn't have the correct markings for a 1969 0*TDC timing setting. Oh well, I'm glad it's straight.

I have acquired rods. I have misplaced all my plastigauge. =D>

All rods weigh within .3 grams statically on my "home pharmacy" scale, and the machinist said they were zeroed out end-to-end on his scale which has an accuracy of .1gram. These sound good to me, and I see fresh balancing marks.

For the last three years I have been dealing with a leaky oil filler/breather. I did not know that I had some chrome POS until I felt this used swap meet VW one with caked-on grease and dirt. This one feels much more solid, and doesn't wiggle at all the joints. :cheers: Anybody know why the factory draft tubes had a bend in them?

Oil cooler tested perfect @ 80pis. Date stamp on it reads "4/71" so I guess they sure don't make them like they used to…

Progress feels good.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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