Herrnkind's Engine Thread

[Lanval]

Herrnkind,

Some thoughts, in no particular order (i.e. I'm not making a logic-based, step by step argument here):

You're living with someone else, have a job that (I assume) isn't a whole lot of money, you need a car to get to/from work

and

You own an older VW.

In my mind, those things do not match up, unless: You are an experienced mechanic who can solve major problems with little to no direction or help.

older VWs, whatever else they may be, at this point belong to one of two types of people: those who can do it all themselves, or those with money (OK, a third type ~ me. I can do some of it myself, and have some money).

I have my own place. My job pays me a lot of money. Not crazy money, but enough that I live in a spendy area of So Cal and still have enough to throw $1500 at my van when it really needs it. I don't need a car to get to work, and the weather is nice enough that I can ride a bike most every day. So when my shifter went out, I rode a bike to work for a month while I got my shit together, ordered parts and fixed the shifter.

In other words, I have none of the pressures you have, but since I'm not a mechanic I still get frustrated with my van not running right, and having to deal with all kinds of little things that drive me crazy. Everyone here, I suspect, has felt as you do, with a few obvious ultra-competent individuals excepted. I would never be one to tell you to just "give up", but I would be the one to tell you that taking care of business (your mind/spirit/body) trumps your van. For me, working on my van is peaceful ~ a labor of love, if you will, a kind of physical meditation.

If your van is nothing but an albatross around your neck, then I question continuing to throw money/time at it when you don't seem to have much of either. Reliance upon shops is dicey at best (three weeks and they think it's an FI problem?! They couldn't figure it out in that amount of time? Really?) and expensive always. It's unfair, really, that it's cost you so much, but it's not a new problem. I'm easily in the range of $15K on my vanagon, and I'd be willing to bet that excepting the motor (which ran after 30 mins of Colin after sitting in a field for 7 years) my van was in better shape than your VW.

You have options. Selling is one; trading is another. Parking it somewhere safe (maybe ~ doesn't sound like you have a safe stable place...? Maybe a brother/family member if they can allow it) and making low payments on a cheap, soulless car which gets you to/from work reliably isn't impossible. Biking isn't impossible either. I knew a guy in Oregon who rode 20 miles each way to work year 'round. He liked to ride/race and it's how he stayed in shape.

You seem close (running but low power to me suggests adjustment of some sort) but continued pain/stress/unhappiness is a tremendous price to pay for a running van. You must take care of yourself first, then the VW. The simple reality is that for anyone who is not wealthy or an experienced mechanic, older VWs are an expensive hobby with a long tail.

Best of luck. If there's something we can collectively do to help, maybe a request or plea would elicit what you need.

ML

[herrnkind]

I will find out what exactly the shop did I am sure it wasn't all that in-depth. they did talk with Colin once I don't know what was discussed. these are different people than who installed the engine originally the second shop I brought it to to get it running. they are trying to stress that I put a carb on it. if you ask me that would be more than fixing the FI. $450.00 for the carb then labor and whatever else probably $800.00 in the end. with the fuel injection I just bought a new resistor that is done the injectors look good new gas lines so in the end I can pick up a used ECU unit for $50 - $75 and a wiring harness for around $100. I don't know how I would be better with a carb. then run the risk of getting everything together and still having a problem. I don't think they are trying to take money from me I just don't know how much they are really doing figure the problem out.

[Bleyseng]

Don't put a single carb on it and keep the FI. So far it doesn't sound like a FI problem as usually that is a "it works or doesn't work". It runs but with low power meaning you can drive it?
Go back to the basics and check everything.
1. valve adjust
2. check the spark plug wires and firing order
3. check timing
4. check that all the injectors fire (disconnect the wire from the dizzy to coil so there isn't a spark and pull each injector so it sprays into a plastic container. A remote starter setup is handy for this)
5. check the dizzy and vacuum advance and mechanic advance operation (no or little advance is common in old dizzy's due to 35 years old grease that turns rock hard)
6. check and clean all grounds (FI grounds, tranny ground strap, negative battery strap)

You are trying to get good spark at the plugs and good injection spray at the injectors, then its just a matter of correct timing.

[airkooledchris]

is there no shop worth their salt within driving distance of this poor bus????? all these old school guys wanting to throw carbs at FI problems makes me crazy. the most important part of auto repair, IMO, is proper diagnosis - which means thoughtful troubleshooting.

surely someone out there with a voltmeter and a Bentley should be able to start crossing a LOT off of the potential problem list, with just a few hours of time max.

if your unable to do it yourself, you gotta find a shop worth trusting it to.

Harbor Freight gives away voltmeters for free these days, or at the most they charge $5 for one. That and your Bentley - start at page 6 in the Fuel Injection section labeled 'troubleshooting procedures' . Im a ham fisted idiot when it comes to auto repair (I have no problems with that, it's better to realize it and adjust accordingly than to get too cocky), but I can read and follow directions. That and a volt meter should help narrow down all sorts of issues. For me, im more excited to cross things off the list than I am to even find the source, because with each test you know your getting closer. Just don't fall into the trap of 'oh, they said they checked that already' - if I didn't se the result myself, im checking it if I have the means to do so.

Id either try to do it myself, or, if you can't find a decent shop, just ask these guys if they have done all of the tests for the FI system listed in the Bentley or not. I know it feels weird questioning them about what they do, but if they want you to ditch the FI setup - make sure they actually checked the FI system completely. '

[herrnkind]

I am going to go and try to pick up the bus today as long as I have the money to pay for it. I have a volt meter and a book I can make the checks myself. the reason I brought it to the shop is that I rebuilt the engine and I could not get it running correctly and thought I may have done something wrong Putting it back together. the shop said the motor seems solid not that I really trust that but I can now start with the FI and go from there.

[Amskeptic]

I will find out what exactly the shop did I am sure it wasn't all that in-depth. they did talk with Colin once I don't know what was discussed. these are different people than who installed the engine originally the second shop I brought it to to get it running. they are trying to stress that I put a carb on it. if you ask me that would be more than fixing the FI. $450.00 for the carb then labor and whatever else probably $800.00 in the end. with the fuel injection I just bought a new resistor that is done the injectors look good new gas lines so in the end I can pick up a used ECU unit for $50 - $75 and a wiring harness for around $100. I don't know how I would be better with a carb. then run the risk of getting everything together and still having a problem. I don't think they are trying to take money from me I just don't know how much they are really doing figure the problem out.

I spoke with the person you referred to me, he was not as knowledgeable as I wish he was.
You definitely have more of the required intelligence and motivation to get it running well.
He said that it ran FINE with a richer mixture (he stumbled across the wiper in the AFM and moved it towards rich and it ran well, he SAID)

When I asked for him to do the AFM adjustment that I specified, we agreed that I would call again in 24 hours at my expense to walk him through. So I call at our agreed upon time and the person on the other end said he had a doctor's appointment and wasn't in? I did not pursue it any further.

Did YOU do the AFM wiper test? If the engine runs well with a little counter-clockwise movement of the wiper at idle, you, yes you, can make it happy! You can make it richer, so it will run well enough for you to get back there and investigate with a running engine (!), then look for the vacuum leak or hidden spilt hose that is making it lean. We have to get this engine happy so you can successfully break it in.
Colin

[Lanval]

is there no shop worth their salt within driving distance of this poor bus?????'

Mohawk, NY appears to be somewhat rural; I found this about 80 mi away:

"R & D Automotive: Bavarian Rocket Science
16 Tivoli St.
Albany, New York 12207
Phone: 518-598-1274
518-598-1273
Fax: 518-598-1275
bavarianrocketscience@gmail.com
http://www.bavarianrocketscience.com

Owner: Rick Dobush

Type Of Shop: Repair, Maintenance, Racing, Tuning, Restoration
Will Work On: Aircooled, Watercooled, Eurovan, Rialta, Audi, Por

Just North of downtown Albany, NY on the corner of Tivoli St and North Pearl St. (Route 32) and just down the hill from Memorial Hospital. Two blocks from "Nipper" the RCA dog. Easily accessible from I-90 and I-787. Call or visit the website for more info.

Anonymous writes:
Aircooled, vintage specialists that can handle anything from the 40s and 50s, all the way up to the present models with over 30 years of German automobile maintenance, repair, modification and customization, specializing in everything from the routine to race car preparation. The Bavarian Rocket Scientists change the way people care for their cars by providing convenient and innovative repair and maintenance solutions, allowing clients to safely enjoy their vehicles to the fullest and with great peace of mind. R & D Automotive: Bavarian Rocket Science is made up of a small team with tons of expertise, led by owner and head mechanic, Rick Dobush, who runs the shop and oversees all repairs and his nephew Tommy, who manages the business and helps with customer service. When you call you will most likely speak with the service writer, Ken, who is equally experienced, easy to deal with and willing to help. Ken provides the best possible point of contact between the technicians in the shop and even the most discerning customers. The team really understands the passion and sentiment revolving around these fine German autos and will go out of their way to help their clients.
Shop Rating: Excellent
Recommended
Report Date: 01.15.2013 "

Herrnkind, you might look at this website to see if you can find someone you can work with as you check out your system. Personally, I think doing it yourself is the safer route, and those guys look expensive, but it'd be nice to have someone who's got your back.

Roadhaus: http://www.roadhaus.com/shops.php

[airkooledchris]

is there no shop worth their salt within driving distance of this poor bus?????'

Mohawk, NY appears to be somewhat rural; I found this about 80 mi away:

"R & D Automotive: Bavarian Rocket Science
16 Tivoli St.
Albany, New York 12207
Phone: 518-598-1274
518-598-1273
Fax: 518-598-1275
bavarianrocketscience@gmail.com
http://www.bavarianrocketscience.com

If your gonna go somewhere else to get help with setting the FI correctly, they look like they are skilled enough to understand German systems....




Though cost *could* be a concern, but I wouldn't let that scare me away from checking in with them. Often times their shop rates are the same as others, where the price difference is in the cost of the parts for the vehicle your having them work upon.

[herrnkind]

picked the bus up from the shop today I think it runs worse than when i brought it in. love paying people for nothing. service receipt says installed part owner brought in stopped halfway down the road to try the resistor pack that was sitting on the front seat while doing that noticed that Y piece from the s boot was the old cracked one had to go back to the shop to get the new one I bought the made me look for it didn't know where it was. what a joke. feel like driving it to the scrap yard being done and over have no money left to put into this no place to store and no way to work.

[Jivermo]

Sell this bus, and get on your feet. This is not the time in your life to be dealing with this continuous stress. When your conditions are better, you can always get another one if that is your choice.

[Amskeptic]

picked the bus up from the shop today I think it runs worse than when i brought it in. love paying people for nothing. service receipt says installed part owner brought in stopped halfway down the road to try the resistor pack that was sitting on the front seat while doing that noticed that Y piece from the s boot was the old cracked one had to go back to the shop to get the new one I bought the made me look for it didn't know where it was. what a joke. feel like driving it to the scrap yard being done and over have no money left to put into this no place to store and no way to work.

What did they charge you?
What did they write down as the work they performed?
What is it running like?
I will be in the area in January.

If you are able to follow my instructions without the Demoralized Resistance that I have experienced/witnessed thousands of times, we can continue to drive this diagnosis to a successful conclusion. It requires that you follow my instructions explicitly, and ask questions freely when you are not exactly sure. I understand that you might be limited by lack of tools. I wonder if we could get Vdubtech out your way . . . he is in Syracuse, and sometimes likes to travel a bit.

I will reiterate my disappointment that your bus ended up there, and I will reiterate that I did not think much of the familiarity/skill of the guy I spoke with, and I will reiterate that I think you *do have the requisite intelligence and motivation . . . if you are well-rested.
ColinWhoIsNot

[herrnkind]

I had found a massive vacuum leak from the throttle body to the plenum. when I pulled the throttle body off I found a huge pool of gas in bottom of plenum. Is the cold start valve bad? hooked up to the wrong wires the EGR valve clip and cold start reversed? I will try and test that today. could the temp sensor 2 cause that? plugs are correct. I think the advance and retard hose were hooked up wrong with the little diagram and the throttle body off I will double check and block off the retard hose. I am working on this for now and will check for other vacuum leaks.

[Amskeptic]

I had found a massive vacuum leak from the throttle body to the plenum. when I pulled the throttle body off I found a huge pool of gas in bottom of plenum. Is the cold start valve bad? hooked up to the wrong wires the EGR valve clip and cold start reversed? I will try and test that today. could the temp sensor 2 cause that? plugs are correct. I think the advance and retard hose were hooked up wrong with the little diagram and the throttle body off I will double check and block off the retard hose. I am working on this for now and will check for other vacuum leaks.

It is GOOD to find only dumb problems thus far. May they remain thus.
Colin

[drozdenko]

Did Herrnkind's bus ever get running??

Just curious.

Lee

[Amskeptic]

Did Herrnkind's bus ever get running??

Just curious.

Lee

Last I heard, it is getting close. I might try a swing by in the frozen cold when I drag my sorry carcass up into the polar reaches . . .
Colin