Type IV's Aren't the Only Seat-droppers Out There

[PleinAir]

Hey, my first post!

Just wanted to say Hello and share a quick story and some tech content.

Motivation
Road trip from St. Louis-area to East Stroudsberg, PA back in June '06 to make it to a museum I wanted to visit for the past two years.

Transportation
Our '66 Westy.

Developed a nagging power loss in western PA. Number 2 Intake was tighter than normal. Kept getting tight as we went down I-80, adjusted it out as required, sweating the entire way thinking the valve was stretching. Almost aborted the trip, but came this far and decided to just kept going.

Arrived at the museum, camped a bit nearby and headed home adjusting that #2 intake every 2-300 miles (or when it needed it). In Ohio the adjustment stopped due to the swivel foot adjuster bottoming out. If it tightened up before we got home I was going to find a shop with a grinder to shorten the rocker arm. If I had a stock adjuster, I could have gone to CA on that sucker.

Made it home before the valve tightened up once and for all. Long story short, I took the head off, removed the valve and watched the seat fall out. I could actually roll the seat around inside the head like a Spirograph™. The guide had lots of extra room, too. Big crack between the seats that went deep into the head. Heads were on their second rebuild and had 40,000 miles on this engine before the seat got loose. Never had that happen in the 20 years of driving these things and we even managed to get 22 mpg on the return trip. I always assumed only Type IV's dropped their seats and am glad it didn't jump out and jam the valve.

Some things I learned from this trip:
Buy new heads if possible, don't rebuild 'seasoned' heads.
Keep some stock adjusters in the tool kit.
Indianapolis folks race on the freeway, too.
Pennsylvania has some nice scenery, even though it rained most of the trip.

[Westy78]

Good advice and welcome to the forums!

Did you have any indication that the heads had been running hot?

[PleinAir]

Good advice and welcome to the forums!

Did you have any indication that the heads had been running hot?

Not really; I have a CHT and I kept my speed down to 55-60 because it was hot enroute through Ohio and we took the scenic route by staying off the interstate. I like having the gauge, but I'd like to upgrade to the Dakota someday after reading some positive feedback on it.

[Westy78]

Yes the Dakota Digital gauge is nice. Not as stock looking as a VDO but much more accurate. I can really tell when I'm climbing even the slightest incline or hitting any kind of headwind with the DD. The thermal compensation circuit is really nice to have instead of guessing with the VDO.

[PleinAir]

Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the VDO. Had a few times where it would bounce around just cruising on flat roads and spike above 400° other times for no obvious reason.

Figured it was because I had to lengthen the wires on the thermocouple so the gauge could sit on the package tray instead of having to mount it in the floor using the supplied wire!

Bus drivers need this gauge more than the bug guys, come on VDO, little help here!

[Amskeptic]

Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the VDO. Had a few times where it would bounce around just cruising on flat roads and spike above 400° other times for no obvious reason.

Figured it was because I had to lengthen the wires on the thermocouple so the gauge could sit on the package tray instead of having to mount it in the floor using the supplied wire!

Bus drivers need this gauge more than the bug guys, come on VDO, little help here!

A little background on your engine? What heads were you using?
Colin?

[PleinAir]

It's a 1904 (74 crank x 90.5) and the first time I've tried a stroker crank.

7.2 CR
stock cam
stock valve sizes
full flow setup
kadrons with old Berg linkage setup from a swap meet. Drilled by AC.net for vacuum.

The idea was more torque, but no top end performance, because I keep it under 4,000 rpm's for shifting and around 3,500 for cruising.



The heads were rebuilds from my old 1776 and with hindsight I should have waited a bit longer to install new ones. I knew it was about time for the 'ol 30k refresher, but I figured they would make one more road trip. I wanted it to be a single port, but was talked out of it. Next time I might try the 74 crank, but use 85.5 p&c's and make it a single port or just go back to a 1600.

Since that photo was taken, I added a CB Breather box to vent the valve covers, because on long trips the stock breather couldn't keep up and I'd get a fine mist in the engine bay.

The trans has a 3.88 R&P and .82 4th so I could keep the reduction boxes and 185C's on stock rims. Wanted to try something different and knew from the start it would be experimental. Again with hindsight, a 4.12 might have been a better choice because of the weight of the camper.

It's funny, the older I get, the keep-it-stock or close-to-it sounds better all the time!

Edit: found a pic of the dead head:

[Amskeptic]

1904 (74 crank x 90.5)
The idea was more torque, but no top end performance, because I keep it under 4,000 rpm's for shifting and around 3,500 for cruising.
I wanted it to be a single port, but was talked out of it.

For the performance gain with the dual Kadrons? Did you have a performance gain?

The trans has a 3.88 R&P and .82 4th so I could keep the reduction boxes and 185C's on stock rims.

Because the above would give you a final drive ratio of 4.88 and an overall of 4.00 which is FI 2.0 late bus territory. Did you dyno the torque/hp figures? I'd be curious to know. The Type 4 engine is pretty good at cooling itself at slower rpms than the Type 1.

Again with hindsight, a 4.12 might have been a better choice because of the weight of the camper.

Many many many people are not fully aware of quickly you change the range of the lower gears with a taller r&p

It's funny, the older I get, the keep-it-stock or close-to-it sounds better all the time!

Interesting you say that. . . . after our genteel free-for-all barroom brawl in the General Forum's "Housecleaning" thread.
Colin
(what year is your VW?)

[PleinAir]

I can definitely feel a difference with the kadrons vs. the 34 pict when I had the 1776. He felt the stock 30 pict carb would be too small for the 1904 displacement, even if I maxed-out the jetting.

Don't have access to a dyno, so I just had to wing it. In strong head winds with this gearing, I can heat the heads up real fast if I don't keep my foot out of it.

My bus is a '66 SO-44 I bought from a kid who ran the oil out of it until it knocked. Pretty much ran the life out of every other aspect of it, too, it was pretty rough when I stumbled onto it. Spent the last ten years wrenching on it and painted it in my garage. It's not a 'double-throwdown' 100-point special by any stretch. The pic below is from a lunch break enroute to PA on the infamous Seat-Drop Road Trip.

[Amskeptic]

In strong head winds with this gearing, I can heat the heads up real fast if I don't keep my foot out of it.

My bus is a '66 SO-44

There is no way I can convince people of the care that the factory matched power output/cooling capacity/gearing for a seamless system.
After you have been driven mad with a Chevy G-20's hunting between overdrive and 3rd on a small hill, you can better appreciate how neatly VW split the hp/torque peaks between 3rd and 4th.

Beautiful bus you got there. Are you one of the fortunate ones with decent sound insulation in there on the highway? I have driven buses that thunder inside and I have driven buses that purr nicely. . . something about intrinsic engine balance and whether or not you have petrified transaxle mounts.
Colin

[PleinAir]

Trust me, I fretted over the gearing and future engine combos before committing to it, I didn't just jump in head first. Having said that, if I had to do it again, I probably would have went with a 4.12 R&P, like a '67 bus. I expected the heads to crack eventually, it's inherent in their design even if it had stock gearing, perfect winds and a 1600. Those heads had two rebuilds on them and an unknown amount of mileage and I just pushed them a little too far.

Yeah, a lot of sound deadener and insulation went in the bus to cut the racket, but the wind noise up front is about the same.

Made it a habit long ago to replaces the mounts anytime the trans comes out and to make sure they're German, if possible. The kid who owned the bus before me had welded a chunk of steel to the torsion housing and bolted that to the nose cone. That was fun to clean off, but luckily the welds weren't that great.

[DurocShark]

luckily the welds weren't that great.

Sounds like one of my welds.