Distributor Install Type4 Engine

[misszora]

New lifter installed, push rod tubes, rocker arms and push rod tube retaining wires are all in place.

Now I'm ready to adjust the valves but have found that the distributor and rotor are spinning freely. Of course I didn't notice this until I was ready to look for TDC on #1.

When I installed the distributor , I was following the Jake Raby DVD and thought I had it where I needed it to be and it wasn't moving around. Now it's been rotated so I'm not sure where TDC on #1 is according to the mark on the distributor. Am I making sense?

I'm not readily finding information on re-installing the distributor other than at the beginning of the rebuild when it's initially installed into the case with the pinion/drive.

So my questions are 1. how do I get the distributor back into it's correct position and 2. can I remove it in order to do so without messing anything up and 3. is it already messed up?


thanks!
- paige

[ruckman101]

I found TDC on cylinder #1 with a chopstick. Watch your valves. Both exhaust and intake will be closed on the TDC, compression stroke. Take out the spark plug, insert clean chopstick so that you can tell when the piston hits TDC. Install distributor, align mark on body to rotor. I think that does it.


neal

[misszora]

OH! I get it. In the DVD, it's mentioned that the "old fashioned way" was with a screwdriver but I had no idea what the the heck that was supposed to mean.

See you at the Lab?

[Gypsie]

It should not spin if it is fully seated. Dist Drive Gear? We'll tawk.

[misszora]

It WAS fully seating when I first put it in and I know it shouldn't spin. Just trying to figure out what I did but didn't want to mess with anything just in case. yes, we'll talk tonight at the Lab? Do you happen to have a teeny, tiny Philips screwdriver? Just string my uke and one peg is loose. Bring it if you're coming and you get this in time.
THANK YOU!

[ruckman101]

I'll attest, while there wasn't a teeny, tiny Philips screwdriver available, the Gypsie mon applied a large swarthy pocket knife blade tip to the task, but still, we got no tune.

uhm, there was some other stuff, too.

Can ya tell I just got back from a night at the Lab? I can.


neal

[Amskeptic]

how do I get the distributor back into it's correct position?

Please follow closely:

It is NOT about a chopstick telling you that the piston is at the top of the cylinder, and as importantly, that method doesn't work worth a crap in a Type 4 engine with its spark plugs pointing down from above into the cylinder unlike Type 1 engines that point more directly towards the piston.

You must also understand that the #1 AND the #3 pistons are BOTH coming up to the top of their respective cylinders at TDC, so how do you KNOW that #1 is ready to fire, as opposed to merely coming up at the end of the exhaust stroke ready to go back down on the intake??

Well, you have to ask the engine. In order to get the distributor correctly aligned for #1 firing, you need to verify that #3 is the one coming up on exhaust ready to go down on intake. You look at the rocker arms. If #3 rocker arms are both moving in opposite directions as you rotate the engine up to TDC, you now KNOW that #1 is ready to fire.

If your flywheel is on, there is a hole in the flywheel itself that lines up with the big hole drilled in the left crankcase half at TDC. You can verify by easily slapping on the fan hub and fan. Your fan may have a line filed in it exactly at the top for 411/412 cars that are timed through a hole in the fan housing. If you have this little line, you can easily sight the line to be exactly vertical, no fan housing necessary, just line it up with the crankcase parting seam. If you do not have this little line in the fan, you WILL have the bus timing notch on the inside rim of the pulley. Get your plastic scale out of the plastic bag, and merely hold it to the pulley edge. Place the scale hole exactly vertical and sight the notch on the pulley to "0".

Now you can verify that the distributor drive has the slot to the left at a 12* angle from the longitudinal line of the crankcase, sort of pointing towards #3 cylinder, sort of. When you install the distributor, have the vacuum can facing the breather with the rotor pointing towards the notch on the outside lip of the distributor body. There is supposed to be a spring at the bottom of the hole and it will push the distributor up as you push down, but you will win. As you push down, rotate the rotor so you can feel the distributor engage with the slot, the rotor will then be "locked" to the engine and will not move unless you rotate the engine.

With the distributor installed, you MAY NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE BACKWARDS unless the flywheel and shims are installed!
ColinDidThisHelp??

[misszora]

Does it matter if I do NOT have the flywheel on yet?

And yes, when I wake up a little more, this will help. The current attached fan is from MZ with your hand-painted lines on it. Is there only one way to put the fan on? I'm still at home and can't run out to take a peek.

[Amskeptic]

Does it matter if I do NOT have the flywheel on yet?

And yes, when I wake up a little more, this will help. The current attached fan is from MZ with your hand-painted lines on it. Is there only one way to put the fan on? I'm still at home and can't run out to take a peek.

Believe it or not, I am going to let you answer the above questions ...
MeanTeach

[misszora]

MEANTech.

[misszora]

Just started working on the distributor. The fan only goes on one way. yay!
Found the notch on the pulley (also hand-painted by you) and lined it up with the crankcase parting seam.

The plastic scale (from the plastic bag) has two holes, one on each end. Which would be used for alignment against the pulley?

See pictures in next post. Which is the correct way? #1, #2, #3 or none of these.
thanks!

[misszora]

Photo of pulley notch & plastic scale for clarification:


#1


#2


#3

[misszora]

Oh yeah, for those who are interested, the drive/pinion did NOT wiggle its way up. So that's good.


And now it looks like that pinion has come out of it's groove. Can you reinstall it without opening the case???

[misszora]

Now you can verify that the distributor drive has the slot to the left at a 12* angle from the longitudinal line of the crankcase, sort of pointing towards #3 cylinder, sort of.

Is the longitudinal line of the crankcase the same as the crankcase parting seam? When I'm looking for the 12* angle, am I facing the engine from the fan side or the cylinder #3/#4 side? Remember, I am just learning and if I don't understand fully, I need to keep asking questions until I do.

[Gypsie]

Your top pic is the correct direction just swing the bottom mounting hole into position as if it were mounted on the fan housing and you will have a reference point, (top mount hole at 12 oclock and bottom hole at 9 oclock). Your little yellow line will line up to approximately where the little shiny stud on the back of the belt groove is currently (app 11 oclock).

However, I notice there is another little line on the bottom of the fan. Which is for 1-3 piston extension to tdc and which is for 2-4 piston extension to tdc? Check for the notched V groove on the back (base) of the fan assembly. The groove should be for the 1-3 extension. I think the bottom line has a distinct line next to or under the paint. likely that is your 1-3. In fact I recall Colin mentioning something to me about a good reference of painting two lines at the 1-3 location for ease of dynamic timing/valve adj and a single for the 2-4 for valve adj. reference.

Wilson has a drawing re the 12* issue as I recall. But first use Colin's "find #1 TDC method" where you are asking the engine which valves are closed and which are moving when the piston is approaching full extension.

LONGitudinal....Hmmmm?

So...the dist. gear did or did not climb off of the cam gear?

if it did you will need to reset by pulling it out ever so gently and turning it so that when you re-seat it it will land on 12*. Watch how much it rotates as you lift and it clears the cam gear (pull a bit try to turn, pull a bit more try to turn it will be about an inch or so as I recall). this will tell you where to place it when you start to push it back down onto the gear. Try to do it without pulling it all the way out, so you can avoid dropping the drive gear wavy spacer into the case (a bad thing...a very bad thing...). It will rotate a few degrees as it slides back onto the gear, not much but it can put the dist. in an awkward spot if you are not at 12* when seated.


make sure you know where you are shooting for before you start pulling it out to reseat it. The groove is off center and needs to point to 12* in the proper orientation or you will be off 180*. Take a few to grok the issue.

Call if you want.