Noisy Lifter

[chitwnvw]

What about a more viscous lube? I remember some special red lube coming with my lifters for break in.

[Amskeptic]

What about a more viscous lube? I remember some special red lube coming with my lifters for break in.

That is what I use, though I can't find it right now. TRW Cam & Assembly Lube comes in a bottle of red liquid, I like it best.
Colin

[Amskeptic]

You may want to do the break in procedure with the new lifter - run the engine at 2000-2500 rpm for 15 minutes at the first start.

Just drive it, stay away from idling.
Colin

[dtrumbo]

You may want to do the break in procedure with the new lifter - run the engine at 2000-2500 rpm for 15 minutes at the first start.

Just drive it, stay away from idling.
Colin

So perhaps the 150-mile trip on the interstate will be just the thing!

Actually, I'll drive it to work at least once prior to the big trip. I'll keep the RPM's up at the stop signs while getting to the freeway.

Thanks, more later.

[Amskeptic]

So perhaps the 150-mile trip on the interstate after a couple of hours run-time will be just the thing!

Actually, I'll drive it to work at least once prior to the big trip. I'll keep the RPM's up at the first couple of stop signs while getting to the freeway.

Thanks, more later.

Yep.

[dtrumbo]

So perhaps the 150-mile trip on the interstate after a couple of hours run-time will be just the thing!

Actually, I'll drive it to work at least once prior to the big trip. I'll keep the RPM's up at the first couple of stop signs while getting to the freeway.

Thanks, more later.

Yep.

Thanks Mr K!

BTW, I got the lifter apart, the punch on the ball trick loosened it up. There was some helical scoring on the plunger, probably from a chunk o' gunk that got wedged in there. The ball, it's spring, the retainer and the plunger spring were all intact. I suppose I could clean it all up, bleed it and reinstall it, but the brand new Febi lifters (yeah, I got two for when the next one craps out) will be here Tuesday.

[chitwnvw]

But you wouldn't need to break that one in...

[dtrumbo]

But you wouldn't need to break that one in...

I know. I thought of that, but there's also the bent retaining clip which indicates this lifter has taken a beating to some degree. I would love to get the bus back running A.S.A.P. but the overriding desire is to get he bus back running with a reliable component.

So, clean/repair the original lifter or wait and install the new lifter with the aforementioned break-in regimen? Thoughts?

[bus71]

I would wait for the new one, then drive it as much as possible before your trip. I just prefer working at home over road repairs when possible. The old one could crap out when least conviniant.

[vwlover77]

You could bend the clip back into the correct shape. If the only problem is all the gunk in the lifter, I wouldn't hesitate to put it back in after carefully cleaning and bleeding it.

[dtrumbo]

You could bend the clip back into the correct shape. If the only problem is all the gunk in the lifter, I wouldn't hesitate to put it back in after carefully cleaning and bleeding it.

I tried this and it does the exact same thing. I'm assuming that the lifter is worn and is getting stuck down and/or the plunger spring is worn out. Whatever, on to plan B.

Plan B is bleeding and installing the brand new Febi lifter I got a day late from my still-favorite online vendor. Now I need HEEELLLPPP!!! How in the hell do you bleed these bad boys? This "new-style" lifter is the type with the snap-ring clip and the extra washer under the push-rod socket. You know, the one that looks like a flow restrictor from your faucet aerator. The problem I'm having is the new-style plunger does not go down far enough to clear the hole on the side of the lifter body. This prevents you from using the punch-in-the-hole method to keep the plunger from springing back up while you put the push-rod socket and snap-ring back on. What's the trick to this? I'm in the deep-breathing exercise phase of this project, not freaking out that Saturday is getting closer by the day. Not freaking out, not panicking, not freaking out, not panicking. As always, I really appreciate the help!

[vwlover77]

I had this same problem, and expected that you might too.

Exhale..... You will persevere and emerge victorious.

OK, first, you have to have a pair of circlip pliers to get that circlip off, and even then it will be a bit of a struggle. It's a tight fit even when fully squeezed.

Next, to get the internal piston to stay down, I had to get a little creative. Laying around in my shop, I found the little orange plastic tools that you buy to carve pumpkins at Halloween. One of these is the little punch that you use to mark the pumpkin. I cut very short pieces out of the round shaft of this tool. I carefully inserted these into the hole (or is it holes?) on the side of the lifter body and put a hose clamp around the lifter tightly, but not too tightly.

Fill with oil, press gently on the disc (or ball) at the bottom of the piston to allow the air to purge and the piston to be depressed, and tighten the hose clamp so the plastic pieces grip the piston and hold it down. Fill with oil, and reassemble. Work quickly.

[dtrumbo]

Work quickly.

This is exactly what I discovered. My technique this morning, which albeit unsuccessful was to hold the plunger down with a tiny screwdriver and then fast-as-lightning slip the socket in and hope the spring didn't expand too much in the process. I almost got it to work, but ran out of time. I have the exact pumpkin carving tools of which you speak. I will try the side-tension with the pumpkin punch trick and hopefully will prevail with that method.

Thanks Don!

[dtrumbo]

The new lifter is bled, installed, broken in (god I hope I did it right) and the bus is now quiet as a church mouse. Thanks to Don, Colin and everyone who held my hand through this heretofore unexplored frontier into the soul of my engine.

The cause of the original problem and the behavior of the original lifter has me a little perplexed. Last summer, Colin taught me how to adjust hydraulic lifters and we did so then. I've always had a chronic problem with a lifter (no evidence it was this, 2E, lifter) bleeding off and being quite noisy for the fifteen minute or so after startup. As previously documented, the bus developed a noisy lifter that wouldn't quiet down as they had before. The problem turned out to be the 2E lifter which had the spring clip bent and partially popped out. I ordered a new lifter, but while waiting for the shipment, I decided to bleed and re-install the original 2E lifter. I think I did everything right and adjusted both the 2I and 2E valves after I re-installed the rocker assembly. I'm now questioning if I did this right. When I removed the assembly to install the new lifter, I noticed the relative position of the adjusting screw for 2E was significantly different than the one for 2I. I should have been more observant and checked this when I took it apart the first time. At any rate, I installed the new lifter, replaced the rocker assembly and still had quite a bit of slack in the rocker for 2E. I adjusted it "properly" and now the adjusting screw is much more in agreement with 2I which is still in, more or less, it's original position.

So what's happening? I postulate that without taking notice of the relative position of the adjusting screw upon first disassembly, I no longer had any "baseline" as to how things were. Then, after cleaning, bleeding and re-installing the original lifter, perhaps I botched up the adjustment, either by not having the push rod properly seated in the lifter, rocker or otherwise, or just by being a dolt (always possible). This might explain the fact that the original lifter I removed for the second time, appeared to still be pumped up and operational, even though the spring clip had partially popped out again. At any rate, the new lifter is in, the bus seems to be running right and I hope for a wonderful weekend trip to take the kids to see my mom for her birthday.

Regarding the "break-in" procedure for the new lifter, I ran the bus around last night for about 45 minutes doing my level-best to not let it idle. I drove it to work today and it seems like the old bus I remember. If anyone cares to, can you explain what this break-in process does and why it's important to do it? Jasan's cam-lobe-eating description tends to plant seeds of doom in ones' mind. I'd be more concerned about this if I had a significant difference in adjusting screw position after I was all finished rather than prior. All that said, being a fan of forensic science, I would love to know the theory behind all of this.

Sorry for the very long-winded update, and again, I really appreciate everyone's help.

[RSorak 71Westy]

The tightest clearances inside your entire engine are in the lifter. A tiny piece of dirt is probably in the old lifter and causing it not to stay pumped up.

Lifters need to be broken in to get them spinning in their bores, if a lifter doesn't spin it will fail. The higher engine speed during breakin ensures plenty of oil to them and helps them get spinning.