Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

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poptop tom
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Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by poptop tom » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:06 pm

At some point this winter, I need to really take a good look at what is happening with my engine. Here is some background info:

I rebuilt this engine (finished in 2011) with Raby components - cam, valves, etc. Headflow Masters rebuilt my genuine VW heads with the Raby parts. Did all the valve geometry, deck height, etc, myself. (actually had a helper with the engine). Used Mahle 94 mm P&C's. CR is 7.8:1.

Upon finishing the break-in in fall 2011, we immediately took the bus on a maiden voyage to Florida. The bus now has 4 trips to Florida under its belt, as well as a trip to Virginia. Many smaller trips in between. The engine has around 23,000 miles on it.
The engine has never let us down, and has been a strong runner.

Over the course of time, I've had a small spot of oil that would mark the garage floor, and usually oil along the bottom of the engine case. Usage was minimal (normal) for a VW engine. Until a year ago. It seemed like oil consumption had increased. Could never figure out where the leak was.
Pushrod tubes haven't dropped a drip yet. I used a used oil cooler (with new seals) during the rebuild. Could that be it? Rear seal? Who knows. So last winter, I pulled the shroud and fan to investigate. I bought some new oil cooler seals, a new oil cooler, rear seal, oil filler mount seal, dipstick tube boot, oil filter mount seal.
Everything seemed pretty dry. I installed a new oil cooler and seals, and a dipstick tube boot (third one?) I called it good for the upcoming 2014 season.
Drove the bus minimally this summer. Planned on going to Florida again around Halloween.
-Changed my oil (Brad Penn 10w-30) and filter (NAPA)
-Adjusted valves - (actually I barely adjusted any as the porsche swivel adjusters rarely are out of adjustment.
-Changed my 23,000 mile points, cap and rotor (Bosch)
-Installed new NGK plugs.
-Set timing.
-Did compression check - around 130 lbs on all four.

Good to go in my opinion!

Bus ran excellent to Florida. Around 17 mpg fully loaded. But over the course of 1,000 miles, I used 4 qts of oil! WTF? Where is my oil going?
The back of the bus is not covered in oil.
It does not smoke out of the exhaust.
It does not leave a puddle on the ground overnight (a small quarter size one is all)
The bottom of the engine does have a coating of oil on it along the case parting line. Which it did before.

HELP! Could it be blow by? Where is it going, if so? I'm so stumped.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next issue.
I have Dakota Digital gauges. OP, OT, and CHT.

When warmed up, oil pressure is usually in the 30-40 psi range. That's with a 26mm shadek pump.
Oil temps do rise to the upper 220's, and have gone to 233 degrees in some extreme heat.
CHT has never gone over 400. The probe is located under #3 spark plug. Normal summer highway driving is usually at a cool 330-350 degrees.

Everything on the way to Florida was in line temp wise for all three DD's.
On the return trip home, we decided to avoid some road construction on 65 in Kentucky and take I-75 through Knoxville all the way home. We've never taken this way.
We slept overnight in Knoxville and hit the road the next morning. Temps were in the upper 30s. I let the bus get warmed decently before hitting the highway.

So we get on 75 north and are heading into the mountains. We are on a big climb and I know eventually I will need to downshift. I then get pushed into the slow lane by a semi. Of course, we get pushed out of the way to where we are now right between two big rigs trying to make the climb. Due to the sudden lane change, etc., I'm forced to downshift quickly into 3rd to avoid rear-ending the semi in front of me. Bus revs pretty high (No tach) and I look at my DD CHT guage and it reads 530 degrees!! Holy Toledo! My bus!
It slowly drops back to under 400 degrees within a minutes time. Seemed like eternity.

The rest of the way home, the bus seemed normal but CHT temps a tad higher than normal. The bus made it the remaining 400 miles, but we drove through continuous rain once we hit Indiana. And cross winds. Anytime I approached the 60-65 mph speed for any sustained time, my head temps would go towards 400 without apprehension.

The bus has been driven 10 miles total since getting home from that trip. It's now stored for the winter at my shop................................................waiting on me to take a look at things.

I suppose the first thing to do is a valve check. Then check timing. Maybe another compression test.

What y'all think about this mess?
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"

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Bleyseng
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:30 pm

Yep, adjust those valves first as getting that hot stretches out everything a bit. The oil use hmm, I would check for blowby by pulling off the oil breather tower hose to see if it's blowing a decent amount of crankcase air while it's running. You used used P&C's so how used is used? What were they for wear specs? Who deglazed the cylinder bores? Cleaned the ring lands?
Geoff
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poptop tom
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by poptop tom » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:22 pm

They were brand new P&Cs from the type four store. Mahle dished. CCd and ready to roll.

Where does the oil go when its a blowby situation? And what would be causing it?
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"

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airkooledchris
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:52 pm

A change in head temps that severe and that quickly - id first check to see if the temp sender ring still has a good seal. Pull the plug and see if it's marked where exhaust gasses have been escaping past it.

I can't speak for the oil issue, other than to say ive ran my oil temp up to 240-260 a few times and it seemed to be fine. I didn't sustain that temperature for long, but on some long slow hill climbs. My head temps are always pushing the 400* mark when I sustain 65 MPH unless it's dead flat and windless.... id be more worried about the sudden change that the numbers themselves.
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Bleyseng
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:25 pm

poptop tom wrote:Where does the oil go when its a blowby situation? And what would be causing it?
Oil goes passed the rings as the rings are sealing properly and is burnt in the combustion chamber. Hot gases are forced by the rings into the case pressurizing it to force the oil passed the rings.
You want the oil temps to hit 220F so to burn off the water vapor in the oil. Ever notice that yellowish foam on the oil filler cap? Yes, check the O ring on the spark plug as it could be not right and check all the plugs for even coloring.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

72Hardtop
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:19 am

Tell us some more about the genuine VW heads.

What exactly was replaced in the heads? A lot of oil consumption in these ACVW engines are the result of valve guide clearance on the valves.

Were/are the connecting rods notched?

What were the ring end gaps set at?
1972 Westy tintop
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Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
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42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
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Amskeptic
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:03 pm

72Hardtop wrote:.

What exactly was replaced in the genuine VW heads?
A lot of oil consumption in these ACVW engines are the result of valve guide clearance on the valves.
Were/are the connecting rods notched?
What were the ring end gaps set at?
Good questions . . .
Normally,
* swivelfoot adjusters reduce guide wear pretty nicely
* brand new Mahle P&Cs have moly strip in upper ring, single-piece oil rings, excellent end gaps

I suggest checking for crankcase breather/oil residue in breather hose at s-boot and oil at bottom of s-boot. Check plugs for dampish vs dry carbon around the outer circle of plug
Please report,
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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poptop tom
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by poptop tom » Fri May 29, 2015 1:22 pm

Ok an update!

No oil in hose from oil breather to S-boot. Dry.

I changed my oil and put in Castrol 10w-30 in of the Brad Penn green oil. I also added to oil dye sold at FLAPS. It will show up better in normal colored oil instead of the green stuff!
Hopefully something will begin to appear and will give Colin and I a place to start next Friday.

Head temps! So I checked my valve lash and I only did a tiny turn on a couple of them. Everything appeared normal! I also pulled my plugs, which were installed new last fall (NGK BP6ET). #3, where my CHT probe is, didn't seem as tight as it should be when I loosened it for removal. and seemed to have some deposits around the electrode. So I replaced #3 plug, and cleaned up the others and reinstalled.

Today I finally got around to checking my timing. I've not had time to work on, or drive the bus! At idle, I was at about 14 degrees BTDC. At 3500 rpms I was advanced to about 40 degrees BTDC! No wonder my bus got hot and remained hot the rest of the way home.

This weekend, and next week, I hope to get some driving under my belt to get a better idea of where my head temps are!

I'll report more at that time!
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"

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Amskeptic
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:34 am

Amskeptic wrote:Please report.
poptop tom wrote:Ok an update!
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"
Hey, thanks for the update.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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poptop tom
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Re: Excess oil usage and other bad stuff

Post by poptop tom » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:27 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:Please report.
poptop tom wrote:Ok an update!
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"
Hey, thanks for the update.
Colin
There is this whole image thing I must maintain! :compress:
Mr. Blotto wrote, "Boy - thanks for the offer, but a month in poptop tom's world means 5 years"

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