Death Valley Engine Temperatures

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Amskeptic
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Death Valley Engine Temperatures

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:11 pm

At the hottest temperatures I have ever experienced on Planet Earth, my engine showed not a care in the world. Valves were adjusted in the morning to .006 intakes/.0065 exhausts, otherwise, everything was just left alone.
While USA Today promised 127* on the day I traversed Death Valley, I was only able to record 123* in the shade a couple of hours before the typical peak temperatures. More interesting to me, however, is the fact that there is no shade in Death Valley, and the pavement was recording 160* in the sun. The air just above the road was in the 140's.
On the downhills, I kept the car at 70 mph when I wasn't hauling off to take pictures. On the uphills, I would downshift if the engine could not maintain 55mph in 4th gear easily, I'd hold it at 47-50 in 3rd (with the 4.86 rear axle, that is 3,800-4,000 rpm), except for the hairpins and big hills where I would downshift into 2nd and keep the engine at 3,800-4,000 (somewhere around 24-28 mph).

After climbing from 190 feet below sea level to approximately 2,040 feet in Death Valley Junction, I took temperature readings:
valve covers leading edge/trailing edge.............240/285
crankcase corner just ahead of the oil filter........243
oil filter...........................................................260
taco plate........................................................246
strainer plate...................................................240
#4 exhaust pipe..............................................864
#2 exhaust pipe...............................................810
muffler............................................................410
intake manifolds under carbs.............................152
fan housing above scale....................................155
front tire..........................................................133
rear tires..........................................................143
Image

I checked valve clearances the next morning in Pahrump NV, and found no tightening up of the clearances, oil smelled good, engine ran well.

These stock Type 4 engines can take the heat, they don't care . . . as long as you keep them properly assembled, correctly tuned and clean. This is the differential drain plug reading:
Image
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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IFBwax
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Post by IFBwax » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:21 pm

Any guess on that your CHT readings would have been?
The best navigators aren't sure where they're going until they get there. And then they're still not sure.

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:53 pm

IFBwax wrote:Any guess on that your CHT readings would have been?
Not even going to try. I find that half the CHT engines I meet have issues with the stupid spark plug sealing. Any combustion air leak at all changes the game. The last CHT I read off my engine was 460*+ in 2005 in 115* heat.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Manfred
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Post by Manfred » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:51 am

Love the data!

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Randy in Maine
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Post by Randy in Maine » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:40 am

Although I am on record as missing the desert, it is 72º here today at the beach.

Perfect weather.

Last time I was in Death Valley I had a nice dinner at Stovepipe Wells I think it was called. I liked the Borax mine also.
79 VW Bus

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regis101
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Post by regis101 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:01 am

When you took the engine readings was it still running? Would heat soak be a factor if the engine was off. Perhaps having the temps rise a bit before coming down, albeit slowly.

My first thought is that you were almost a glutton for punishment for running through a hot arse desert with 100*+ temps. On the other hand, you've shown how the engine wants to blow the heat out if itself with the higher rpm. I would not want to attempt high temp desert driving except at night.
I averaged the six engine readings to be 252*. Liveable, so I am told for short periods.

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:16 am

regis101 wrote:When you took the engine readings was it still running? Would heat soak be a factor if the engine was off. Perhaps having the temps rise a bit before coming down, albeit slowly.

My first thought is that you were almost a glutton for punishment for running through a hot arse desert with 100*+ temps. On the other hand, you've shown how the engine wants to blow the heat out if itself with the higher rpm. I would not want to attempt high temp desert driving except at night.
I averaged the six engine readings to be 252*. Liveable, so I am told for short periods.
Engine was still running. Remember that the nuclear reactors here are the combustion chambers, they go down in temp the instant you lift off the accelerator. They are shedding an easy 1,000*+ out through the adjacent parts whose temps were stable as long as airflow was occurring. At idle, however, the heat from the combustion chambers is radiating out rapidly as their temps drop quickly while the surroundings spike with the flood wave of heat where cooling air is no longer plentiful, so heat soak occurs. The heat soak is of no consequence. Burning hot bumper is of no consequence. Your walking around worrying about the hot hot hot engine is only your own subjective discomfort when the car is sitting there idling. The deadly heat has already left the reactor chamber. The only time things are hairy is when your accelerator is pressed and the engine is working hard at low rpms. And because you are enjoying the breeze, you may not be aware that the reactor is at code red.

I am a glutton for beauty.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Manfred
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Post by Manfred » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:42 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I am a glutton for beauty.
Colin
Nice one, Colin. :cheers:

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werksberg
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Post by werksberg » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:54 pm

So, in the engine compartment on the intake manifold the temp was 150 degrees.

Did or would you the next time take a temp of the ceiling of your engine compartment on the steel frame or the fiberboard and post that here or IM me?

Thank you, JM.
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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:34 pm

werksberg wrote:So, in the engine compartment on the intake manifold the temp was 150 degrees.

Did or would you the next time take a temp of the ceiling of your engine compartment on the steel frame or the fiberboard and post that here or IM me?

Thank you, JM.
Ceiling was close to ambient when the car was moving. Heat soak will spike it up a bit. I would make any ceiling material as heat-resistant and non combustible as you can. This might buy time in the event of an engine fire.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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werksberg
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Post by werksberg » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:41 pm

ABS plastic is better than the hard board as ABS is self extinguishing.

I did a simple direct butane flame test (much hotter than a engine fire) and the OEM hard board kept burning after 2x 5 seconds burns and the ABS took over 5x 5 seconds burns before it kept burning for a while before going out.....

With the panel holes, the fiberglass batting will light up even faster...but I didn't have any laying around here as I have been trying to clean out all the stuff laying around. So the holes would make any engine fire grow faster...but the best solution to replace and make the fuel line bullet proof.

I have over 25+ years (plus 14 years of teaching a Plastics job training classes too) working with plastics.

I'll be paying a couple of young guys to video tape these burn tests (and one with the fiberglass batting) and then we'll up load them at You tube for everyone to see the results.
Facebook for new product releases and special deals: Werks Berg
http://stores.ebay.com/werksberg
Search the Samba under werksberg for our products on sale there too....but order direct on here for a special IAC shipping savings
SOS: Support Our Shops....
werksberg@sbcglobal.net

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