Center Pin Questions

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:41 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

bus71 wrote:You could use a hack saw to slice the bushings on the vertical, this should loosen them up. Don't cut too deep.
Excellent suggestion. I have one of those handles that holds a hack saw blade for just such an application.
bus71 wrote:The tie rods, etc. are clear of the hole? Good luck! Someone could have used the earlier solid bronze bushings?
Yes, the relay arm is clear. The pin was original VW (it had the stamp to prove it, I'll post pics sometime later). At one point, I thought the bushings had been replaced due to the fact that the locking tab on the bolt was missing. Now I'm not ruling anything out. It is possible that these bushings are original as well. No matter, they're comin' out one way or the other.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try in the morning (if I wake up early enough!) and report back.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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hambone
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Post by hambone » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:56 pm

Try the heat first, no sense messing up the bore accidentally.
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it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:27 pm

They're out! :cheers:

First, let me show you my original VW center pin.
Image

It showed some wear.
Image

Image

It has now been ground down to be the bushing driver Colin tells you how to make.

Finally today, I was able to get the upper bushing to break free and succumb to the hammer. What was the trick? Well, while I was using the hacksaw blade to cut a groove in the bushings as bus71 suggested, before I even made half a dozen strokes, a thought popped into my feeble brain. "What if I try banging on the side of the upper bushing to get it to break free". I did just this with a little chisel against the 1mm of bushing sticking out of the top of the tube. That did the trick! A couple of good whacks with the chisel and a few more good whacks with the driver pin from below and here you have 'em!
Image

The upper one is on the left with the chisel mark at the top. The lower one is on the right with the bottom flattened out from the incessant beating with the hammer and driver. Both proudly displaying their original VW part numbers. After they were out I looked up the tube a saw a little rust. Perhaps it was this rust that had frozen the upper bushing in place. The side-to-side movement, instead of the up-and-down movement must have been just enough to break the rust free. For what it's worth, neither bushing had the oil hole facing forward. One was facing the side and the other even more rearward. You can kinda see in this pic.
Image

The only mystery now is why the locking plate was missing from the bolt that holds the whole thing together. A mystery I'll never know the answer to, so I'll just fuggetaboutit.

Tomorrow is my lovely wife's birthday so I'll spend my morning shop time wrapping her present (it's a cake stand, shhh, don't tell her! Seriously, she asked for it, what am I gonna do?) so I'll begin the installation of the new bushings and pin on Saturday.

More to come.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

vdubyah73
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Post by vdubyah73 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:16 pm

I'd be guessing the bushings aren't original. Some PO replaced 'em, didn't have a clue about the grease holes and he lost the locking plate because it took so long to finish the job. The whole thing wore out quickly because of no grease getting where it really needed to be, hence the rust.
1/20/2013 end of an error
never owned a gun. have fired a few.

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:26 pm

vdubyah73 wrote:I'd be guessing the bushings aren't original. Some PO replaced 'em, didn't have a clue about the grease holes and he lost the locking plate because it took so long to finish the job. The whole thing wore out quickly because of no grease getting where it really needed to be, hence the rust.
A valid possibility. At least they used genuine VW parts! I suppose that a dealer service department could have performed this inferior work as well. :pale:
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:04 pm

dtrumbo wrote:
vdubyah73 wrote:I'd be guessing the bushings aren't original. Some PO replaced 'em, didn't have a clue about the grease holes and he lost the locking plate because it took so long to finish the job. The whole thing wore out quickly because of no grease getting where it really needed to be, hence the rust.
A valid possibility. At least they used genuine VW parts! I suppose that a dealer service department could have performed this inferior work as well. :pale:
Yaahuh.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:48 am

O.k. so the job is complete! Everything went back together pretty much as Colin's procedure said it would. I discovered that the old upper bushing, among being installed in the wrong orientation (oil hole facing rearward), was also installed incorrectly in another way. It protruded from the top of the tube A LOT more than 1mm. This would explain the photo from page one where the seal is all blown out.

One thing I would add, and I'll post this on Colin's procedure page as well, is it is extremely helpful to chamfer the edges of the grease cap before trying to install it. For me, getting the grease cap on was the second-hardest part of the whole project.

Next on the to-do list is adjusting the steering box as it seems that is where the slop is. I don't feel bad at all replacing the center pin because, as has been previously documented, it needed to be done properly anyway. I'll do a search about how to adjust the steering box, but if anyone wants to chime in with a tried-and-true method, please do so. If it makes a difference, keep in mind this is a late-style worm-and-roller box as opposed to the early worm-and-peg.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:51 pm

dtrumbo wrote:One thing I would add, and I'll post this on Colin's procedure page as well, is it is extremely helpful to chamfer the edges of the grease cap before trying to install it.
Don't generalize this step. There are too many variations out there.
I usually put the cap in a large socket that reaches the edges of the cap, and tap down with a screwdriver handle directly in the middle. This bows the convex and pulls in the endges. Then when you tap the cap in, it locks on the sides to keep road grime out. You have a tight fresh bus with bushings that hang on. Not me...
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:24 pm

Your socket-bowing procedure is a better way to do it. Since I buggered my grease cap on the initial attempt, my only recourse was to chamfer it with the grinder.

So what's the best way to adjust my steering box?
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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dtrumbo
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Re: Center Pin Questions

Post by dtrumbo » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:13 am

Amskeptic wrote:If you have steering box play at the very center of its travel, you can adjust the box.
Amskeptic wrote:(p.s. the Bentley adjustment procedure is way too involved . . . there is a better way that does not require removing the drag link and steering wheel and using an inch/pound torque gauge)
dtrumbo wrote:So what's the best way to adjust my steering box?


Hello... (tap, tap, tap), is this thing on? :sleepy2:
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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Amskeptic
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Re: Center Pin Questions

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:17 pm

dtrumbo wrote:
Hello... (tap, tap, tap), is this thing on? :sleepy2:
Oh for crying out loud.

Center your tires (sight down along the top of the wheel arch and make sure you have equal amount of sliver of wheel showing on each side of the hubcap medallion).

Are your steering wheel spokes centered? Go under the car and feel for the dust cap that sits atop the box where the steering wheel shaft goes out. There is a little projection on that dust cap that should be facing rearward. It must be lined up with the boss on the steering box that also faces rearward where we can all see such things.

It is important to know the true center of the steering box. The worm gear is cut such that the play increases as you go towards lock. The exact center of the worm gear is supposed to be under preload. VW wants you to measure the actual preload (7 inch/lbs) at the true center. Since we know that play will indeed begin to occur as we turn the wheel, then we also know that the preload HAS to diminish to zero at some point as we turn the wheel either left or right. Instead of tearing the car apart to measure the preload, we just need to turn the steering wheel between 90º and 120º away from perfect center. At that point, you can loosen the 19mm locknut on the box adjuster (please note the location of the adjustment screw first and try to hold it still as you loosen). Now wiggle the coupler (the square rubber coupler) vigorously as you turn the screw clockwise with your stubby screwdriver. You should feel a little clickiness as you turn the screwdriver that changes to. . . no more clickiness. That is "0" play. Tighten locknut. Now, "0" play at 90º - 120º is 7 inch/lbs preload at exact center. If you over-tighten, you will feel a lumpiness or a stiffness that you do not want.

If your steering wheel spokes are not lined horizontally when the lug is lined up with the boss, some yoko has monkeyed up your bus. If your wheels are not straight ahead when the above is lined up, then some fumb duck has your tie rods and drag link adjustments all boffoed.
:flower: Colin :flower:
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:24 pm

Thank you sir! I'll report back the results.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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dtrumbo
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Post by dtrumbo » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:39 pm

Ahhhh... SOOOO much better! A quarter-turn clockwise and now I can feel where I'm steering instead of having my eyes tell me something my hands never intended to happen. Everything is in sync again!

Thanks Colin!

P.S. I "repacked" my ball joints while I was down there. Both lowers have torn boots, but from what I've read on this esteemed internet site, it might be better to keep the originals and just nurse them along by packing grease in the torn boots. Everything seems nice and tight, so why not?
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

bus71
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Post by bus71 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:35 pm

I'm all for repacking as long as possible, having had my own sad ball joint experience.

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hambone
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Re: Center Pin Questions

Post by hambone » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:35 pm

Hey Dick, how is that Meyle centerpin holding up?
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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dtrumbo
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Re: Center Pin Questions

Post by dtrumbo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:45 pm

hambone wrote:Hey Dick, how is that Meyle centerpin holding up?
Made it all the way to Nehalem and back which is more than I can say for you! Bwahhhahhahha! :bootyshake:

I think it's fine, although I have a pesky pull-to-the-right which I don't think I can blame on the center pin.

When I bought the new front tires at Les Schwab I had them check the alignment and the guy said it was "pretty close". I think that meant he really would rather not touch it since it's probably the oldest car he's ever seen in his shop. I think I'm going to call the local respected ACVW repair shop and ask who they recommend for front-end alignments.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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