trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels on

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airkooledchris
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trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels on

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:56 am

I was excited to pick up some old custom bus wheels last year, having never seen this pattern before, and I finally got around to having them powdercoated:

Image


UPS brought me my BFG's yesterday, so I went and had them mounted and balanced:

Image

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The problem I just ran into is on the rear, with the brake drum profile around the outside edge, like this:
Image


It holds the wheel away from being able to mount flush up against it, which means im only getting the nuts about halfway onto the studs.


crap. I was sold these wheels under the idea that they came off of a bus, but im not sure what bus wouldn't have had this same problem.


is there a solution worth doing? I have a spare set of white steelies I can pay to have these tires mounted on instead, but damnit I hate the idea of wasting all that time and money on powdercoating and mounting them on these wheels just to quit now.
1979 California Transporter

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Bleyseng
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Re: my stupid custom wheels won't fit on the stupid bus beca

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:53 am

Install a rear disc brake kit and it will fit and look cool
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
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airkooledchris
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Re: my stupid custom wheels won't fit on the stupid bus beca

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:58 am

Bleyseng wrote:Install a rear disc brake kit and it will fit and look cool

thanks for the reply. that's what my friend said I should do to. sounds expensive to me.

I should probably just get the damn things mounted on proper stock steel wheels again just get on with my life.

from what ive found so far, I think to make them work id need to run a spacer and then press in longer bolts. sounds less expensive than upgrading to disk brakes in the rear, but a hell of a lot of work (and it's so cold and wet, booooo, not a winter project.)
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zabo
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Re: my stupid custom wheels won't fit on the stupid bus beca

Post by zabo » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:05 pm

those stock drums? havent seen them with that lip before
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78 bus

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Re: my stupid custom wheels won't fit on the stupid bus beca

Post by airkooledchris » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:16 pm

zabo wrote:those stock drums? havent seen them with that lip before

That's what im trying to decipher. Im pretty sure it's always been there, I just never noticed how far out it sticks from the center of the drum until now.

If I could somehow get away with just replacing my drums with ones that didn't have the lip, that would rock the box. Im starting to lean towards ditching these wheels and paying (again) to mount them on a different set of wheels instead. (vs dealing with the whole 'press in longer studs' BS)
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:20 pm

airkooledchris wrote:I was excited to pick up some old custom bus wheels last year,
is there a solution worth doing?
Chris, you know me . . . I am like the over-protective mother.

Those wheels have NO meat between the pilot circle and the lug holes. I wouldn't trust them with MY lovin' family. What the hell is so wrong with factory ventilated drop disks?
Colin

Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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airkooledchris
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by airkooledchris » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 am

Amskeptic wrote: Chris, you know me . . . I am like the over-protective mother.
Those wheels have NO meat between the pilot circle and the lug holes. I wouldn't trust them with MY lovin' family.

This post has been driving me nuts since I first read it.

Am I really putting my family in danger by driving with these wheels on my bus?


The wheels were used previously, which tells me that they hadn't previously failed, but also that they have some wear on them already (maybe they are that much closer to breaking?)

Certainly it looks worse from the front shot than the rear of the wheel, but there isn't a ton of material between the bolt hole and the center which has me worried now.

I have all the parts to make this work on their way already. If the wheels are dangerous then perhaps they should be put up for sale, or just trashed since I don't want the next guy to kill his family while simply trying to have fun with his bus.
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SlowLane
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by SlowLane » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:57 pm

Hey Chris.

If you haven't already, I'll suggest wandering over to the Vanagon forum on The Samba. Wheel/tire combinations is one of the three favorite topics over there. There is much to be learned from reading old posts.

One (other) thing which concerns me about your wheels is the bevel in the lug-holes: are they spherical-seats (like the stock wheels), or cone-taper seats (like most others)? If spherical seats, then I would be worried about the fact that the seat area isn't "raised" or "dimpled" from the mounting plane of the wheel. It's my understanding that the "dimple" around the stock lug-hole provides a spring force against the lug-nut which helps to retain the nut on the stud. Without that dimple, I'd be concerned about lug-nuts working themselves loose over time.
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:34 pm

airkooledchris wrote: Am I really putting my family in danger by driving with these wheels on my bus?
There are good wheels out there, and there are terrible wheels out there.

Can you find a brand name on them and do a search? The world of information is at your fingertips.

Image
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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airkooledchris
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by airkooledchris » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:53 pm

Amskeptic wrote: Can you find a brand name on them and do a search? The world of information is at your fingertips.
There was only one small marking I could find before powdercoating - "CW" which is just too vague.
Honestly they look like wheels that some company was hand building to suit the customers request given how incredibly simple the design is.

In the end, who cares who made them? - if the design itself is flawed enough to question their safety then that's that, doesn't matter who decided to put such a poorly engineered and unsafe product on the road.

Im going to do what it takes to mount the things on the bus at least once. Maybe ill go off roading with them by myself and see if they hold up before risking anyone else's lives with them.
1979 California Transporter

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airkooledchris
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by airkooledchris » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:28 pm

Got them mounted on Friday. Had the local shop press in longer studs, then ran 10mm spacers in the back.

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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:59 am

airkooledchris wrote:Got them mounted on Friday. Had the local shop press in longer studs, then ran 10mm spacers in the back.
How is the tire noise on the road?
Colin
(I am still enjoying those Maxxis deals on Chloe. I am planning on more Maxxis for BobD when the Road Warrior Michelins decide they're done)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by airkooledchris » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:46 am

Amskeptic wrote:
airkooledchris wrote:Got them mounted on Friday. Had the local shop press in longer studs, then ran 10mm spacers in the back.
How is the tire noise on the road?
Colin
(I am still enjoying those Maxxis deals on Chloe. I am planning on more Maxxis for BobD when the Road Warrior Michelins decide they're done)

These are the BFG 195/75R14's and as agressive as they appear - they are either just as loud as the Maxxis's were or maybe a hair quieter. The BFG's seem to have a crisper/tighter reaction which im guessing is due to their being more narrow than the 27x8.5R14's.

The Maxxis's seemed more sure footed in a high speed turn where the BFG's seem to bite and turn in more quickly.

My speedo was almost dead on previously (with the oversized tires) but now reads 3mph faster than what im actually doing.
1979 California Transporter

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sped372
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by sped372 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:20 am

Doesn't look half bad, but yeah, I'd be nervous about how close those lug holes are to the center hole. Typical rule-of-thumb is to be at least half a diameter away from an edge or other feature for adequate strength.
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Re: trials and tribulations of putting non-stock bus wheels

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:44 pm

sped372 wrote:Doesn't look half bad, but yeah, I'd be nervous about how close those lug holes are to the center hole. Typical rule-of-thumb is to be at least half a diameter away from an edge or other feature for adequate strength.
The bending moment on a steel wheel at the VW's rated cornering force of .58 G is approximately 1899 lbs X velocity / no of wheels X leverage from tire foot print to wheel mounting flange / no of lug nuts X radius of each hole X correction factor of any bump stop hits X payload and it is about a half million thousand pound per square inch / surface area of flange in contact with hub .
. . . says I, that's who
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BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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