Itinerant Air-Cooled

Hello,
I am helping a very interesting 80 year old fellow with his bus. Here are the symptoms, I am thinking the brake booster is bad:

brake pedal goes 1/2 way to the floor, engine idle drops slightly, and the braking is very hard, worse than drum brakes. Car is almost unable to stop.

The fluid resevior was almost empty. Upon filling it, we drove a bit and it was 1/2 empty again. No leaking from wheels or from master cylinder that I could see. There seemed to be a strong smell of brake fluid in the cabin, but it's a pretty musty old bus with lots of debris.

If it is the booster, what are options for repair/replacement?

Are you guys proud of me? I'm braving the type4 world, kicking and screaming into the 70s I go.

hambone wrote:Hello,
I am helping a very interesting 80 year old fellow with his bus. Here are the symptoms, I am thinking the brake booster is bad:

brake pedal goes 1/2 way to the floor, engine idle drops slightly, and the braking is very hard, worse than drum brakes. Car is almost unable to stop.

The fluid resevior was almost empty. Upon filling it, we drove a bit and it was 1/2 empty again. No leaking from wheels or from master cylinder that I could see. There seemed to be a strong smell of brake fluid in the cabin, but it's a pretty musty old bus with lots of debris.

If it is the booster, what are options for repair/replacement?

Are you guys proud of me? I'm braving the type4 world, kicking and screaming into the 70s I go.

Brakes are important. Drums off, inspect clean adjust and lubricate e-brake cables under spring plates. Pull pads, check thickness and presence of shims plus the "butterfly" spring.
Check booster for wetness at master cylinder o-ring, they can drink gallons of brake fluid without your knowing it. If you replace master cylinder, vacuum out booster and follow with a spray of silicone lubricant, make o-ring seal perfect to maintain vacuum.
Colin'73HasTheBestBrakesOfTheRun

Master cylinder eh? Interesting, that would explain the loss of fluid and braking power.
Do the boosters rarely fail? How to differentiate?
I agree, the whole braking system on this bus needs attention.

hambone wrote:Master cylinder eh?
Do the boosters rarely fail?
How to differentiate?

A booster is just an assist. You either feel it, or you do not.
The brake system itself must be able to lock up the wheels.
Yes it will take effort to make it happen if the booster is not helping.
The booster just lets you daintily tip-toe the vehicle to a halt.
The booster has *no bearing whatsoever on braking ability*!!
Colin

Thank you. I find it interesting that the type3 doesn't use a booster. I prefer less parts to fail.
The only "power brakes" I'm used to are the old GM stuff; when it fails it's almost impossible to stop.

hambone wrote:Thank you. I find it interesting that the type3 doesn't use a booster. I prefer less parts to fail.
The only "power brakes" I'm used to are the old GM stuff; when it fails it's almost impossible to stop.

Or a '62 Lincoln Continental with four wheel drum brakes, you have to lock your knees and move the power seat button forward.
Colin

Well, it's in my driveway now. Hell of a drive with horrible brakes, vague shifting, and no turn signals or brake lights! I have my work cut out for me.

There is no loss of fluid from the upper reservoir since I filled it a couple of weeks ago. The pedal goes 1/2 way to the floor but the bus does stop, but with much less power than even drum brakes.
I see no leakage anywhere - booster, lines, wheels, nada. The vacuum lines seem firmly attached. I have not had the wheels off yet to inspect the pads etc.
The idle does drop considerably when the brake pedal is depressed, leading me to suspect the booster (among other things....)

Here are a few photos. It is a very nice original bus but pretty neglected. Asked the owner the last time it was tuned up, "oh around 1990 or so".

Here are a few booster rebuilders I have found, in case it comes to that. Apparently many big US cities have local companies that can rebuild them too.

http://www.rebuildersenterprises.com/index.asp
http://www.busdepot.com/brakes/brake-servo/211612103x
http://www.brakesystemsinc.com/reman.html

hambone wrote:Here are a few booster rebuilders I have found, in case it comes to that. Apparently many big US cities have local companies that can rebuild them too.

http://www.rebuildersenterprises.com/index.asp
http://www.busdepot.com/brakes/brake-servo/211612103x
http://www.brakesystemsinc.com/reman.html

Update the KnownToBeAcceptable list or the BelatedlyDiscoveredCrap list.

That is a nice looking bus under the neglect. Are you going to help it look better? Do we need to embarrass the owner into taking better care of it?
Colin

I have it for at least a week. Brakes and shifting are the primary concerns. If/when I figgur that out I'd love to make it respectable again. The sliding door is like dragging trough dirt. But the guy has had some serious health problems and is just starting to get his VWs straight. He also has a '67 Bug and a '64 Convert, both far more dire than the bus.
Really like the early-style instruments and the solid construction of Real VW. '73 seems to be a real turning point.

Oh yeah that booster was full of a couple pints of nasty looking brake fluid. What a messy job, YUCK. And a tight Tetris squeeze getting it out of there.
Since it has sat for a couple years in this manner I am recommending that the booster gets rebuilt.

I am going with this place because I am biased for the great state of Illinois. $135 + shipping. 1 week turnaround.
http://www.rebuildersenterprises.com/index.asp

hambone wrote:I am going with this place because I am biased for the great state of Illinois. $135 + shipping.

No love for the local guys at http://www.brakesystemsinc.com/reman.html, I see how *you* are...

She's all back together and out of my driveway. Bleeding took a LONG time and lots of fluid.
Rebuilder's Ent. did a good job on the rebuild, but their customer service not so good. It took a couple weeks to get it straightened out.
Thank you! Now that I know, I still prefer boosterless Buses. I like the tactile feel of the pedal.