My confession after mis-hap...

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wcfvw69
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My confession after mis-hap...

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:43 pm

Ok, so I've read on some threads here and on The Samba about folks "gluing" or using a shellac or other gasket sealer on their valve cover gaskets. My confession? Well, in reading those comments or threads about the need to do this, I would roll my eyes or snicker at the absurdity of doing that. Hell, I've been working on these old VW's as a hobby for 30+ years and have NEVER, EVER done anything other than insure the valve cover was clean and insert a new cork/rubber gasket and snap the bale over the cover while insuring the bale applied the appropriate tension.

Why am I suddenly falling on the sword? Well.. I took my restored, bone stock 67 bug with my GF to our friends house for a football party today. The drive was about 55 miles one way. The bug purred and ran perfectly as I cruised across Phoenix on a beautiful day. We arrived w/no problem. A buddy went outside to get something from his car. He came back in and said "uh Bill, you got quite an oil puddle under your bug and a drip stream up my driveway". I of course scoffed at such a suggestion that MY bug leaked oil. When he didn't say he was joking, I got up off the couch, set my ice cold beer down and went outside, incredulous at his implication of "a significant leak or any leak for that matter"..

Um yea, there was a fair amount of hot oil leaking out of the drivers side valve cover. I stared at it in dis-belief. He had some cat litter which I applied up his drive way and under the bug. I popped the valve cover off and YUP, the gasket had distorted along the bottom and curled up towards the top in a big U.. The damn thing appeared to have "shrunk" up in overall size too. This gasket was purchased from Wolfsburg West and wasn't more than a year old..

In all my years of VW ownership, I've NEVER had that happen. He and I jumped into his car and went to the only parts place near by. An O'Riely's. I was shocked to hear they had none in stock.. So, I bought some gasket shellac and a can of carb spray to clean the gasket and valve cover. I followed the directions of the shellac and glued the (@#$@$(@#&$(@$ gasket down as best possible. I made it home w/no issues after also adding 1/2 quart of oil. I kind of felt like Colin with the exception of not being on a dirt road, out in the middle of no where!

So, I guess I'm a believer now.. :)
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Amskeptic
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:42 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:
So, I guess I'm a believer now.. :)
I still never have had an issue with Type 1 valve cover gaskets. The Type 4 valve cover gaskets have gotten totally extremely thin and cheap. Those you really do need to adhere to the valve cover.

Sometimes valve cover gaskets will grow as they saturate with oil, and the increased length will push them into the inside of the valve cover. The ages-old John Muir method of greasing the cork helps the cork not get saturated with oil. Believe it or not, more grease better stick as the solvents evaporate out leaving the base.

Well, you can't say your little princess doesn't have an impish side.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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wcfvw69
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by wcfvw69 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:55 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
So, I guess I'm a believer now.. :)
I still never have had an issue with Type 1 valve cover gaskets. The Type 4 valve cover gaskets have gotten totally extremely thin and cheap. Those you really do need to adhere to the valve cover.

Sometimes valve cover gaskets will grow as they saturate with oil, and the increased length will push them into the inside of the valve cover. The ages-old John Muir method of greasing the cork helps the cork not get saturated with oil. Believe it or not, more grease better stick as the solvents evaporate out leaving the base.

Well, you can't say your little princess doesn't have an impish side.
Colin
What was odd to me is that this gasket shrunk in size Colin, like a prune. When I got home, It wasn't leaking but a drip was forming on the bottom of the valve cover. I've never greased those gaskets either nor have I seen them swell or shrink. I've seen them get hard after being on too long though.

Just odd to me and yet another fine example of the quality parts we have to deal with.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:13 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
So, I guess I'm a believer now.. :)
I still never have had an issue with Type 1 valve cover gaskets. The Type 4 valve cover gaskets have gotten totally extremely thin and cheap. Those you really do need to adhere to the valve cover.

Sometimes valve cover gaskets will grow as they saturate with oil, and the increased length will push them into the inside of the valve cover. The ages-old John Muir method of greasing the cork helps the cork not get saturated with oil. Believe it or not, more grease better stick as the solvents evaporate out leaving the base.

Well, you can't say your little princess doesn't have an impish side.
Colin
What was odd to me is that this gasket shrunk in size Colin, like a prune. When I got home, It wasn't leaking but a drip was forming on the bottom of the valve cover. I've never greased those gaskets either nor have I seen them swell or shrink. I've seen them get hard after being on too long though.

Just odd to me and yet another fine example of the quality parts we have to deal with.
So it shrank down off the inside edge?
I think composition may have changed in there. Some gaskets are horrid little swellers and others seem more stable. Glue away . . .
ColinStuckInAChair
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by asiab3 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:12 am

I fought this for a long time before just sticking some Lion/Indian Head scholar on the clean cover and clean gasket side. Life is too short to risk it for me, plus you can reuse the gaskets a little longer. I think I net 6,000 miles out of a set now before they shrink so much as to worry me, where I used to get maybe 1500 before the leak sprang up.

I like how the T4 valve covers have the tabs to prevent the "distortion" that Bill talked about. That was exactly what was happening to mine.

Robbie

edited for misinformation
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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sped372
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by sped372 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:47 am

I've been smearing both sides of the gasket with a light film of wheel bearing grease for years now, no issues. Probably just cursed myself. Cork gaskets, of course.
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Jivermo » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:16 am

The method Colin showed me is the best that I have used:
1) Clean all surfaces well-the valve covers and the head mating surface.
2) glue the gasket to the valve cover surface, using Indian Head shellac. I sincerely hope that the name of this product has not been changed for some misguided PC reason.
3) Coat the head side of the gasket with a consistent coat of grease, like wheel bearing type.
4) Clamp the cover on the head.
5) Check for leaks after the engine has run a bit.

Image

I love this product. It really works well.

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Amskeptic
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:42 am

asiab3 wrote:I like how the T4 valve covers have the tabs to prevent the "distortion" that Bill talked about.
Robbie
HA! That damn tab is proof positive of the coming collapse of civilization.
Back when people cared, the gasket would be pinched at that tab.
The new ones are so damn skinny they can rattle back and forth inside the tab.
It is just plain wrong that there are manufacturers of aftermarket parts who willy-nilly de-engineer replacement parts.
ColinWaitUntilIHaveSomeCOFfeeThenI'llTellYaWhatIThinkAboutThat
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by asiab3 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:26 am

Jivermo wrote: 2) glue the gasket to the valve cover surface, using Indian Head shellac. I sincerely hope that the name of this product has not been changed for some misguided PC reason.
I do not think so. In reading up, I think my FLAPS simply cheaped out. One day last year I went in for more Indian Head, and found Lion Head. (The Counter Monkey actually told me that was the reason for the change.) It appears that Permatex makes the Indian and Versachem makes the Lion Head. I have found them to be identical in smell and function.
Autzone.com wrote:Versachem is brand name under the Permatex company that offers quality products at a value.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by 71whitewesty » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:28 am

sped372 wrote:I've been smearing both sides of the gasket with a light film of wheel bearing grease for years now, no issues. Probably just cursed myself. Cork gaskets, of course.
I do the same and never had a problem or leak. I generally change them every 3,000 miles but I have also ran them as long as 9,000 miles (reused after oil and valve adjustments) without issue.

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wcfvw69
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by wcfvw69 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:59 pm

Image
Image

I forgot to post these pictures of the "shrinking" valve cover gasket that started this thread. I've never seen this happen before. The new Wolfsburg West valve cover gasket fits snuggly against all the sides of the valve cover.
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Amskeptic
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:20 pm

wcfvw69 wrote: I forgot to post these pictures of the "shrinking" valve cover gasket that started this thread. I've never seen this happen before. The new Wolfsburg West valve cover gasket fits snugly against all the sides of the valve cover.
Oh, the Type 4 skinny gaskets do that even worse. They really need to be the right composition and size.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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wcfvw69
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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by wcfvw69 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:49 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote: I forgot to post these pictures of the "shrinking" valve cover gasket that started this thread. I've never seen this happen before. The new Wolfsburg West valve cover gasket fits snugly against all the sides of the valve cover.
Oh, the Type 4 skinny gaskets do that even worse. They really need to be the right composition and size.
Colin
Ya know, those 7 year old Chinese kids just don't make things like they use to.

On a serious note, It's quite pathetic that parts as simple as this are so craptastic.. :(
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: My confession after mis-hap...

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:40 am

wcfvw69 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote: I forgot to post these pictures of the "shrinking" valve cover gasket that started this thread. I've never seen this happen before. The new Wolfsburg West valve cover gasket fits snugly against all the sides of the valve cover.
Oh, the Type 4 skinny gaskets do that even worse. They really need to be the right composition and size.
Colin
Ya know, those 7 year old Chinese kids just don't make things like they use to.

On a serious note, It's quite pathetic that parts as simple as this are so craptastic.. :(
I have a confession . . .

I have done two valve adjustments now twice re-using the 25 year-old gaskets on this Westy.
They continue not to leak.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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