85 Vanagon Digijet

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satchmo
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by satchmo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:38 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Lanval wrote:Engine is back together again.
The setting of the dizzy to get it at 5 deg ATDC at odds with where the dizzy was when running.
Thoughts?

The 5* ATDC presumes a running engine with a functional vacuum retard.
You can only set it to 5* ATDC with the engine running.


Colin
And you know the vacuum retard is functional, right? If it isn't, you can make the mistake of setting your timing 10-12 degrees too retarded at idle and throughout the whole rpm range.

I don't know enough about the 1.9 vacuum system, idle system, or ecu to be of any more help. Sorry.

And I'm not sure I agree with you on your logic about ground connections. Poor grounds can lead to high resistance in most every circuit, causing inconsistent and bizarre electrical behavior. It is good you made them all shiny and conductive.

Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:57 pm

Depends on what we mean by "running" here ~ the engine runs, if the timing is set to a significant number BTDC. I can't tell what it is, because there is no scale on these engines ~ just the split case mark.

I didn't have time today, but tomorrow or Friday, I want to pull the dizzy and see if you're right about the the dizzy alignment. In the dizzy location that the engine runs, the dizzy is at the approximate location that it was set at prior to my attacking this problem. In other words, it looks to me like the timing was set wrong, and other things adjusted around it ~ or you are right, and the dizzy location is incorrect.

Alternatively, the TB is the issue, or there is a big ol' vacuum leak somewhere. I assumed the vaccum retard system works, because it worked before and I didn't change anything meaning. Yes, I swapped out the plenum. I reattached the various vacuum tubing where necessary. I could check a few more spots, but basically, it worked before and I didn't do anything to it. So a reasonable assumption in the face of this should be that it works. That said, I'll go look at the Bentley and see how to test the vacuum system/retard.

*******************

as for the fuel pump, there's no trick there. The FP has 12v in, and 12v out to the chassis. Doesn't matter whatever else happens in the system. As long as 12v goes in and the pump runs, the ground is good. For ever and ever until it breaks. Once you've verified the pump is correctly running in that set up, the only thing that can cause a problem is something that prevents the 12v from arriving at the pump. Sure that could be the pump ground, but if the pump runs from an alternative 12v source the ground is good ~ end of story, no rechecking necessary.

Hell the ground was good with the older, cut up crapola wiring. It was always the ECU. I only replaced the harness because I was sick of the half-assed wiring jobs that had been done before.

********************

I should add though, that the pump itself could be bad. I'm tempted to replace just because it's old, but throwing (expensive) parts at problems is a stupid way to proceed, whatever the relative merits of building reliability into your system. I want to KNOW what the problem is. After that I'll be happy to replace older parts all day long, just so I have a new engine, one piece at a time.

********************

I'll try the TB. It acts pretty wonky when I try to play with the throttle, sometimes revving sometimes dying. If it still runs like crap, then it's on to the next item.

Best,

L.

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:44 pm

Lanval wrote:Depends on what we mean by "running" here ~ the engine runs, if the timing is set to a significant number BTDC. I can't tell what it is, because there is no scale on these engines ~ just the split case mark.
When are you ready for an Itinerant Air-Cooled tune-up day, Mr. Lanval?
Nathan@el, too.
What we mean by "running" is . . . the engine must be rotating under its own power with the distributor turned in whatever direction yields your timing light flash timed to the 5* divot on the pulley (as opposed to the "0" mark) lined up with the crankcase seam AFTER you have grabbed the other end of the retard hose and sucked on it to see that the vacuum diaphragm actually holds your vacuum and drops the timing back.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:21 pm

It's a bad month, but I have a $100 bill in my pocket... can I pay on installment? Any time is good. My schedule is generally open during the daytime (I work 6-10pm M-Th). PM me with your ideas as far as timing and cost.

I'll check the vacuum retard tomorrow.

ML

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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:31 pm

Am I right in thinking that the vacuum retard is the vacuum line coming off the disk which is attached to the distributor? Can't remember ~ a bit of instruction for tired/scared van owner.

L

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Lanval wrote:Am I right in thinking that the vacuum retard is the vacuum line coming off the disk which is attached to the distributor? Can't remember ~ a bit of instruction for tired/scared van owner.

L
Yes, retard retards the distributor retard with a diaphragm in a can.

Now let's see what punctuation does to our friendship.

Yes retard, retards the distributor retard with a diaphragm in a can.

Yes, retard retards the distributor, retard, with a diaphragm in a can.

But wait! Do you have two vacuum lines leading to the can, man? If so, the advance is the one further away on the dual chamber vacuum unit.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:27 pm

Here's a pic of the unit in question:
Image

The hose that is still connected on the top part (towards the top of the picture) goes to a T connection behind the Plenum and TB.

The connection that points towards the bottom of the picture connects to the TB on the side of the TB that faces towards the rear of the vehicle.

That's all I can remember here in the library. I'll double-check the connections tomorrow. So which one is the vacuum retard ~ the hose which is still connected in this picture, if I understand your instructions.

So more explicitly; should I disconnect this hose from the "T" fitting and suck on that end of it while the engine is running, in order to verify vacuum retard?

L

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satchmo
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by satchmo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:56 pm

The nipple pointed toward the distributor (on the flat side of the vacuum canister) is the retard. Advance is on the cone shaped side (the one you show as being connected).

Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:27 pm

I got a chance to check this. As far as I can tell, sucking on the vacuum retard does nothing. Since the original unit is ratty (heh), I'm going to replace it.

Any reason not to replace the whole distributor unit? I ask, because the vacuum unit from Bus Depot is $125, as seen here:

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?par ... 025905271B

Or I can get a rebuilt dist with vacuum unit (or so it would appear from the pix; I'd have to verify on phone to be certain) from Go Westy:

http://www.gowestyautoparts.com/1985,VO ... VWA053516/

Confirmation from GoWesty. The dizzy does include the vacuum unit. Will order. ~ L


I wasn't able to get the unit easily locally. I didn't try any of the local guys; although I'll note that OE Veedub has a distributor, and it's $281. I'd like to think this problem is cheaper than that.

L.

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:31 pm

Lanval wrote: I'd like to think this problem is cheaper than that.
L.
I'd like you to consider an Itinerant CutToTheChaseDay.
I just got a PM from a damsel in distress in Encinitas, and I would like to
synchronize you with her (and Nathan@el?) in the next two/three weeks?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

Lanval
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Lanval » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:39 pm

Let me know days that work. I'm OK with cutting to the chase. I'm still going to change the dizzy/vacuum unit though. That vacuum unit is so rusty it scares me. I'm going to swap out the throttle body for the old one too. I think the new TB butterfly valve is sticky/ing.

I'll let you know how it goes.

The sooner the van runs the better ~ let me know your schedule.

L.

Replaced the TB with the original unit. It ran a little better, but essentially the same. I checked pretty carefully. There's plenty of vacuum coming off the TB, but sucking on the vacuum unit doesn't have any effect on the advance/retard.

L.

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:15 pm

Lanval wrote: Let me know days that work. The sooner the van runs the better ~
let me know your schedule.
We are at the mercy of the damsel in distress. February 14th through 20th ish?
We have to wait for the train to make it a proper save . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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nathan@el
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Location: Guilford, Vermont
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by nathan@el » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:45 pm

When are you ready for an Itinerant Air-Cooled tune-up day, Mr. Lanval?
Nathan@el, too.
I would definitely be interested in a tune-up day! Although the van has generally been running great since you left, it has been having some "hard" starting issues. I can't tell if the idle is just set too low for a cold engine, or if there are other factors as well. But it often stalls immediately after start up, and I have to try again (and again, sometimes).

Also, I would still like to improve the gas mileage. I think it must be running rich, as I haven't been able to get much more than 13MPG out of it.

Wednesdays and Thursdays are good for me, as is the weekend. Let me know when you're heading out this way!
Orange 1980 Vanagon L Westy
~190,000 miles on body
~20,000 on engine

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Amskeptic
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:14 pm

nathan@el wrote:
When are you ready for an Itinerant Air-Cooled tune-up day, Mr. Lanval?
Nathan@el, too.
I would definitely be interested in a tune-up day! Although the van has generally been running great since you left, it has been having some "hard" starting issues. I can't tell if the idle is just set too low for a cold engine, or if there are other factors as well. But it often stalls immediately after start up, and I have to try again (and again, sometimes).

Also, I would still like to improve the gas mileage. I think it must be running rich, as I haven't been able to get much more than 13MPG out of it.

Wednesdays and Thursdays are good for me, as is the weekend. Let me know when you're heading out this way!
You shall be notified. . .
Colin
(time to update your signature. Your engine has more than 26 miles now. I need to update mine too. The BobD now has 477,298 miles :blackeye: )
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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nathan@el
Getting Hooked!
Location: Guilford, Vermont
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Re: 85 Vanagon Digijet

Post by nathan@el » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:45 pm

time to update your signature. Your engine has more than 26 miles now.
Done and done! ;)

I'll look forward to your next visit!
Orange 1980 Vanagon L Westy
~190,000 miles on body
~20,000 on engine

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