Cooling System Leaks

[Lanval]

I know, this is the most retarded post ever in the itinerant Air-Cooled forum, but still; a little help... Here's the original post on the Samba; I'll save the bits here, and await any commentary.

Mike

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467650

[airkooledchris]

how much more expensive is the stainless kit?

if it's not much more, then sure, that would make sense.

as much trouble as you have had with the watercooled setup, id be hesitant to blow big money on a stainless setup if the plastic one would work well enough for tens of thousands of miles.

[Lanval]

AFIK, the OEM stuff isn't available. Bus Depot has the lines for around $240 + shipping. So I'm either going with that (it looks about the same as the Van Cafe, but not as nice of a kit ~ I have to source clamps myself...) or I'm just going to run a big heater hose line and wrap it in something harder than rubber.

Mike

[Amskeptic]

I know, this is the most retarded post ever in the itinerant Air-Cooled forum, but still; a little help... Here's the original post on the Samba; I'll save the bits here, and await any commentary.

Mike

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467650

This is not trouble-shooting any more. This is Type 2 Forum. P.S. Do not drill your pressure cap as suggested on theOtherSite. Do not.
Colin

[Lanval]

I know, this is the most retarded post ever in the itinerant Air-Cooled forum, but still; a little help... Here's the original post on the Samba; I'll save the bits here, and await any commentary.

Mike

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467650

This is not trouble-shooting any more. This is Type 2 Forum. P.S. Do not drill your pressure cap as suggested on theOtherSite. Do not.
Colin

I'll drill whatever I effin want! *looks around deviously*

Seriously, I couldn't even bring myself to drill holes in the sheet metal to mount fog lights ~ I'm not drilling out the pressure cap (i.e. ruining a pressure cap). What I do need to know is which fix is OK:

TK's replacement sections @ $145. Cheap, effective, but requires splicing in new hard lines

Bus Depot's hard line replacements in 1/2 sections @ $279

Mikes hose replacement @ $5.99 p/ft

Which one/s pass the Colin O McSticky smell test?

Mike

[Amskeptic]

Mikes hose replacement @ $5.99 p/ft
Which one?

Plastic wire ties, decent clamps maybe a little smear of Permatex Aviation or that head sealing black stuff on the ends. Come on, get it done, drive.
Colin

[Lanval]

Mikes hose replacement @ $5.99 p/ft
Which one?

Plastic wire ties, decent clamps maybe a little smear of Permatex Aviation or that head sealing black stuff on the ends. Come on, get it done, drive.
Colin

For clarification ~ we're talking about splicing in a rubber hose in the leaking areas, correct? Or should I just do the whole line, front to back?

Mike

[Lanval]

Due to a lack of a reply, I went ahead with "splice" as my option, since a review of the pipes shows they look reasonably good (on the outside anyway) a foot or so after the forward leak. So here's what I have:

Hacksaw for cutting pipes
Reinz gasket sealer for pipe to hose junction
Water hose


The water hose is the best quality wet exhaust hose that West Marine had ~ $11 p/ft, which I bet I could've got a lot cheaper if I knew where to get such things around here. Anyway, here's a closeup; the hose has a wire spiraled inside, and is 32mm. The inner diameter is just a hair or two smaller than the OD of the OEM pipe, via my new, $10 calipers, courtesy of Sears.


I tried the Emergency Tape fix; here's how it looked when done wrapping:


Here's how it looked after driving an hour, and sitting for about 30 minutes:


I'm not a skeptic yet, though; I didn't follow the instructions on how to wrap for a higher pressure leak. Their directions were pretty optimistic about the circumstances under which I was working, though. Anyway, getting full extension on the tape and wrapping 5 times wasn't going to happen when I plan to fix this anyway. I just wanted to see if it was a quick and easy fix. I think it'd work though, if I were in trouble on the road ~ in that case, I'd've taken more time to do it well, resulting in a better outcome, I suspect.

********************************
Now, how to proceed ~ here's what I imagine...

1. Drain coolant through heads.

2. Clean/inspect pipes, make sure I have 2 inches clean, good pipe to work with on each side.

3. Mark and cut pipes

4. Clean very carefully at cut areas to remove detritus and shavings from cut

5. Stuff paper towels into pipes

6. File/Sand cut edges to smooth, no-sharp points finish

7. Measure distance from tube end to tube end

8. Measure cut area of metal tube

9. Repeat steps 7 and 8 very cafefully

10. Coat upper tube end with Reinz gasket sealer for two inches back from pipe edge

11. Install hose on the upper end (using strongest, Anglo-Saxon curse words for maximum effect)

12. Check distance to tube end; verify against earlier measurements

13. Cut hose at appropriate length, remembering to leave 2" overlap for Reinz gasket sealer on pipe.

14. Install front end of hose on tube (Using strongest Latin curse words for purely aromatic effect)

15. Optional ~ go back to West Marine to get new hose since I screwed up first cut at some point

16. Allow sealer 24 hours to set.

17. Take even more time than that, since I'll be changing the radiator while the coolant is out. (save that for another post)

*****************************

Did I miss anything?

Mike

[Amskeptic]

Due to a lack of a reply,
I went ahead with "splice" as my option, Did I miss anything?
Mike

Did I?

Please breathe a deep breath and realize that holding in 14 psi is not trying to, let's say, fix a brake line with duct tape. If you follow your own instructions, I think you will do fine. Based on your Nervous Nellie approach, might I caution you against over-tightening hose clamps? Snug is good. Cranked and twisted and stressed at the threads is so not.
Colin

[Lanval]

"Nervous Nellie"?!

Remember installing the exhaust system? Remember how much fun that was dealing with a bent exhaust? That was due to a "go for it" response, and it pissed you off, made our job harder, and resulted in a less than optimal finish.

Now you're telling me to quit planning and thinking and just do it? Fine; I will. That'll leave you to clean up the mess (again) or just result in one more van in the crusher, and me back to Volvos, which were better designed to begin with, your own opinion notwithstanding.

Nervous Nellie?; we'll be having a lengthy discussion about the nature of knowledge, knowledge acquisition and the fundamentals of practical vs. theoretical understanding the next time you are here. Mostly you'll be listening.

Mike

[Lanval]

OK, so after I got done ranting at Colin's comments, I said, "So what're you gonna do about it?" Here's what I did:

I jacked the back end in the parking lot, removed the passenger side tire, and drained the coolant:




Oh, and you'll like the official VW Wheel Chock:



Then I used a hacksaw to cut out the piece. Sadly, I made the first cut in the middle. While deciding how/where to put the house, I found another leak further up, necessitating another cut. Here's the rear cut:



And here it is after I filed it down to remove burrs, etc. Then cleaned with gumout to prepare for the Reinz sealant.



Here's the front, ready to go:



Here's the same shot, now with marine hose in placed, sealant used, and too-tight clamp. The hose slipped on pretty easily, so I'm hoping that the gasket sealer and clamp will prevent any leakage. If it doesn't work, I'll just get heater hose that fits a bit better.



Here's the front connection. The hose sits a bit odd, since there's a slight bend in the pipe there. No worries; plenty of sealant and the clamp is on in the right spot. As Colin notes, I cranked that puppy down. Don't care. Holding is more important than maintaining hose integrity over the long run.



Because the hose is a larger diameter than the pipe, this area is a problem. A big screw holds it now, but I need to do something more elegant and less 'rubby'. I think in time it'll cause a problem with the hose.



Here's what I cut out, in two sections as mentioned:



Inside the pipe. TK over at The Samba said that once the pipes start rusting along the seam, it's just a matter of time. Sure enough, at all three of the leak points, there was a big rust blob inside the pipe. Here's an example:



I could actually feel another smaller one inside the front pipe. The hose/sealant is covering it, so hopefully it'll be OK until I get replacement pipes. Decided not to do the radiator until I do the pipes too. See ya in the fall for that one!

I finished well before dark, so I started on project #2. The dash. Here's a teaser, but I'll start a new thread for that one...



Best,

Mike

[Hippie]

Nice write up.

How do you purge the air out of that long VW piping system?

[Lanval]

Nice write up.

How do you purge the air out of that long VW piping system?

There are two schools of thought on this:

1: The Samba School: "Oh my GAWD" ~ Involves raising the front end, using something called the "Libby Bong" invented by a Samba member. Hair gets torn, VW runs hot, hilarity ensues.


2: The IAC School: Driver sits up front with heater controls open, revving engine. Pal stands in back adding coolant. Run until the radiator stops burping air. Laughter and jokes, occasional yelling at the driver, happy driving ensues.

I'm actually not sure this is 100% correct, but that's what I remember from last year when we did the heads. I'm actually going to PM Colin for a quick primer.

Mike

[Hippie]

Just the word "Libby Bong" is enough hilarity for me. I vote for the IAC method.

[Lanval]

Just the word "Libby Bong" is enough hilarity for me. I vote for the IAC method.

Apparently it's a pretty good little invention. I'm not totally up on it (because I didn't have to worry about coolant til last year ). I suspect the real value of the thing is enabling you to do the coolant as a one man gig. I'll probably make my 8 yr old sit and rev the engine. I can already hear that puppy bouncing off the rev limiter (if it has one...)

It's the IAC method for me.

Mike

Oh, I mean, when I'm done with the other 2-3 major projects. See the Dash project I posted.

ML