34 PICT 3 dialing in

[Sylvester]

Ok, after Colin and I put the rebuilt 34 PICT 3 on Samantha, we dialed in the idle and acceleration as only Colin can. Even going out and starting it during the 40's was a nice change from what I had been used to. Now we are getting into the 30's, and it is time for some more adjusting.

The past two mornings I have had a hard time getting Sam started. It took 10 minutes of pumping the gas pedal and hearing the engine almost catch, like if described in print would be like

"crankcrankcrankcrankalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchcrankcrankcrankcrankalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatch"

Well, something like that. In the end today what started it was pedal to the floor and it finally caught. Also for the past week when cold Sam will die in the first five minutes at idle. Not fun driving down the road, slowing at a light out of gear hit brakes dead. Not fun.

I "think" I do not have enough idle gas. That would explain the hard start and the dying while cold and not accelerating. Also while on the highway this weekend, when I exited the idle would stay at an annoying 2000 rpm any time I stopped. Where do my adjustments seem to be needing?

[Amskeptic]

Ok, after Colin and I put the rebuilt 34 PICT 3 on Samantha, we dialed in the idle and acceleration as only Colin can. Even going out and starting it during the 40's was a nice change from what I had been used to. Now we are getting into the 30's, and it is time for some more adjusting.

The past two mornings I have had a hard time getting Sam started. It took 10 minutes of pumping the gas pedal and hearing the engine almost catch, like if described in print would be like

"crankcrankcrankcrankalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchcrankcrankcrankcrankalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatchalmostcatch"

Well, something like that. In the end today what started it was pedal to the floor and it finally caught. Also for the past week when cold Sam will die in the first five minutes at idle. Not fun driving down the road, slowing at a light out of gear hit brakes dead. Not fun.

I "think" I do not have enough idle gas. That would explain the hard start and the dying while cold and not accelerating. Also while on the highway this weekend, when I exited the idle would stay at an annoying 2000 rpm any time I stopped. Where do my adjustments seem to be needing?

First thing in the morning, pull the air cleaner elbow off.
Punch the accelerator once.
Check the choke plate. Is it properly fully closed? Let me know. If not, find out why. Either crap or poor adjustment of the element, perhaps? Let me know.
Punch the accelerator twice in a row, try to start engine without touching the gas. Starts? Let me know.
If not, try the same pushing the accelerator to the floor while cranking as you did before (gas to the floor helps to add air).
Does it start only after you have to push the accelerator to the floor?
It is getting too rich during cold start, this is not the carburetor mixture adjustment necessarily. If the engine runs fine once warmed up, why would you screw with the mixture, HAH? You would adjust the choke element CLOCKWISE FACING THE CHOKE to open up the choke plate a bit if you have a flooding tendency during cranking. Let me know?
Let me know.
Colin
(any start difficulty when warm? Let me know)

[Sylvester]

Ok, been awhile postin, these are my observations. When cold outside and Bus is cold, crank without hitting gas pedal, engine can catch on two or three cranks. However if I don't get it started on those few first hits, I am not going to get it running for awhile. It will crank and crank, hitting every now and then, progressively more hits until it catches and runs. If it is cold tbis is what happens evey time unless it lucks out and starts real fast. However this morning it never "caught", it just cranked until the battery died. I checked the choke plate and it was closed. Could not tell if it is full closed because I was dark, but remember my plate is a little loose. I am tired of fighting this, like I stated elsewhere I feel I solve one problem only to have another gremlin take it's place.

[Amskeptic]

When cold outside and Bus is cold, crank without hitting gas pedal, engine can catch on two or three cranks.

I have to assume that you already have depressed the accelerator pedal once or twice before cranking-without-touching-pedal.

However if I don't get it started on those few first hits, I am not going to get it running for awhile. It will crank and crank, hitting every now and then, progressively more hits until it catches and runs.

That is Not Enough Choke Plate.

However this morning it never "caught", it just cranked until the battery died. I checked the choke plate and it was closed. Could not tell if it is full closed because I was dark, but remember my plate is a little loose.

Do not waste your damn time and energy cranking an engine until the battery dies! That ruins both. Get out of the driver's seat, put away your wishful hat, get back to the engine, and make it run.

If you will not search down the parameters you must have in order to start an engine "because I was dark", you will shooting in the dark pissing yourself off . . . like the below

I am tired of fighting this, like I stated elsewhere I feel I solve one problem only to have another gremlin take it's place.

This is not a gremlin. This is a choke that is not closed fully. As you crank and crank, there are a few things going on. One is that the choke element is heating up and opening the choke plate. The other is that you have little native sense of whether the engine is drowning or starving. If it is starving, you pump the gas pedal a couple of times at each start attempt.
If it is drowning, you progressively push the pedal to the floor and hold it there to help clear the plugs.

Be sure that the ignition system is optimal. Be sure the battery is fully charged. It should not have to crank and crank and crank. As the battery voltage drains down, your spark gets weaker as the plugs get wetter. There is no reason on Earth that your car should not start reliably in a matter of ten seconds every winter morning down to 0*
ColinItIs83*Here

[Sylvester]

Indeed, given it was a Monday, the Bus would not start and because I had no Bus I was standing in the wind this morning and evening waiting for the city bus when it was 21F did not make me sound optimistic. I did make sure the plate was as full as it would go, then tried to start it then. It would not sputter to life. However, I can hit the pedal a couple of times, then make sure the choke is down as far as it can go tomorrow morning and give it a try.

One part I have not figured out is why does the engine die after I let it run for a few minutes, then head down the road? This is a problem until I get it warmed up and driven for 10 minutes or so.

[Amskeptic]

However, I can hit the pedal a couple of times, then make sure the choke plate is closed tomorrow morning and give it a try.

One part I have not figured out is why does the engine die after I let it run for a few minutes, then head down the road? This is a problem until I get it warmed up and driven for 10 minutes or so.

Sounds like the choke is opening too soon. Which dovetails nicely with the guesstimate that your choke is not adjusted to close the plate enough.

The choke is designed to keep your mixture rich and fast idle engaged until the exhaust temperatures have begun to warm up the intake manifold. That means you need about four to five minutes of choke.
ColinWeDon'tDo21*

[Sylvester]

I tried fully closing the choke plate last night, after a few squirts of gas, with no luck. I did try only twice though.

[sped372]

ColinWeDon'tDo21*

We've been at -10F the last few mornings. 21 would feel pretty nice.

[vdubyah73]

You probably learned how to drive with FI. Carbs are completely different. There is an art to carbs and cold weather. When I was young all cars were carbed, and the old cars that were affordable rarely had everything working correctly. I didn't know much about cars but I quickly learned the art of the gas pedal shuffle. alternately fluttering the pedal and tapping the brakes as I came to a stop, in order to keep it running as I stopped for a light or sign. If the trying to die goes away as it warms up do as Colin says. if it keeps doing it after warm you probably have carb icing. till you get it figured out, give it the 2 shots to the floor, Start cranking. If nothing, pump the gas a couple more times while continuing to crank. sometimes a couple will turn into several times. If the engine doesn't sound like it is firing at all, such as sputtering or cranking faster, hold the pedal to the floor. If you still have a mechanical fuel pump and your carb bowl is empty after sitting for a day or two the problem is compounded. the battery has to be strong enough to crank the engine long enough to refill the carb bowl before you have enough gas to start.

[Sylvester]

Today in the sun with 42F on the thermometer, Sam spun for 10 seconds then caught and ran. When she runs she runs like a bull at Pamplona in the streets. I will try and tightening the choke down and see if she starts in the morning.

[Amskeptic]

Today in the sun with 42F on the thermometer, Sam spun for 10 seconds then caught and ran. When she runs she runs like a bull at Pamplona in the streets. I will try and tightening the choke down and see if she starts in the morning.

Are we currently at the index mark? You do not want to be a . . . bull in a choke shop. Move only 1/4"-3/8" COUNTER-clockwise, and then see how it does. You want it fully open in four to five minutes.
Choke is like heroin. A little is a nice get up and go, too much kills rings and oil.

[Sylvester]

Two shots this morning and a lift off first try at 28F. Have not adjusted the choke yet, wanted to try this first. Still have to nurse the gas pedal until it warms up or I will stall at the first 4 stops I come to after starting.

[Amskeptic]

Two shots this morning and a lift off first try at 28F. Have not adjusted the choke yet, wanted to try this first. Still have to nurse the gas pedal until it warms up or I will stall at the first 4 stops I come to after starting.

Raise idle speed a smidge.
Increase mixture a tad.
Check heat riser for warmth.
Told you that air cleaner air preheater was important . . .
ColinItIs76*

[Sylvester]

Two shots this morning and a lift off first try at 28F. Have not adjusted the choke yet, wanted to try this first. Still have to nurse the gas pedal until it warms up or I will stall at the first 4 stops I come to after starting.

Raise idle speed a smidge.
Increase mixture a tad.
Check heat riser for warmth.
Told you that air cleaner air preheater was important . . .
ColinItIs76*

Air cleaner heater is not available until I can get my pie platter welded in which is not going to happen in a hurry. We go with what we got until PO hacks are corrected.

[Sylvester]

41 today, Sam did not start immediately but di spin up in 10 seconds. Still no adjust for the choke plate, no time this month to do much preventive maintenance.