Itinerant Air-Cooled

Hippie wrote:I did already, but they moved the post from Buses to Off Topic so it'll never get seen.

Figures. How is that "Off Topic"?

Sluggo wrote:Figures. How is that "Off Topic"?

Only thing I can think of is that the fisrt batch didn't include Mann or Mahle filters.
Whatever.

Hippie wrote:I did already, but they moved the post from Buses to Off Topic so it'll never get seen.
Thanks again for the German filters to test.

It seems my latest post over there got deleted. Sigh.

No sweat, my donation to science and progress. I didn't know or factor in the filter change habits of the European crowd. Makes sense. Looks like the Mann and Mahle are total junk though.

chitwnvw wrote:

Hippie wrote:I did already, but they moved the post from Buses to Off Topic so it'll never get seen.
Thanks again for the German filters to test.

It seems my latest post over there got deleted. Sigh.

No sweat, my donation to science and progress. I didn't know or factor in the filter change habits of the European crowd. Makes sense. Looks like the Mann and Mahle are total junk though.

I wouldn't call em junk. Just not the best. STP is Junk! I'm still upset about the K&N. I really thought they made quality products. I use their air filters and haven't had a problem in 5 years. I clean & oil them regularly though.

I meant to write that they "aren't" total junk. My bad.

chitwnvw wrote:I meant to write that they "aren't" total junk. My bad.

They are looking quite good overall, so far. Excellent construction, decent filtration (which will improve to some degree in the long term as the filter pores get packed with small bits), and great flow.
I'd run them. I can't use these particular models though because I don't have the bypass valve built in to the filter mount like, as germansupplyscott informs me, the T-4 engines have.
I might run the M1-204 but it is unconfirmed as an exact replacement for the T-4 engines.

Sluggo wrote:...I'm still upset about the K&N. I really thought they made quality products. I use their air filters and haven't had a problem in 5 years. I clean & oil them regularly though.

Any oil filter is far better than none, and the early VWs used none, so if you are in love with the nut on the end, I wouldn't worry about continuing to use them.
I would not, however, use their air filters; they are not the most efficient. If you can fit one, I would go to S&B or Donaldson for a cleanable, oiled air filter. Or stick with paper. Paper almost always cleans the air best.

Thanks to chitwn for the donation, and thanks hippie for continuing the tests with mahle, mann, and wix. I've been running Mahle filters pretty exclusively for the last several years (with an occasional Napa Gold/Wix thrown in).

Anxiously awaiting the results after things settle...

Hippie wrote:

Sluggo wrote:...I'm still upset about the K&N. I really thought they made quality products. I use their air filters and haven't had a problem in 5 years. I clean & oil them regularly though.

Any oil filter is far better than none, and the early VWs used none, so if you are in love with the nut on the end, I wouldn't worry about continuing to use them.
I would not, however, use their air filters; they are not the most efficient. If you can fit one, I would go to S&B or Donaldson for a cleanable, oiled air filter. Or stick with paper. Paper almost always cleans the air best.

I've tried to find paper ones but can't for Weber IDF's. I'll check out S&B and Donaldson. Never heard of them.

bretski wrote:Anxiously awaiting the results after things settle...

Ya me too.
BTW, I'm running a Wix at the moment. Still a good filter overall.
I've switched filters a lot looking for any difference in oil pressure on (and idling after) hot highway runs and haven't seen any differences so far. My OP gauge does tap oil pressure after the filter.
I've run Wix, STP, Fram, Fram Racing, PureOne, Purolator Classic, AC/Delco, NAPA Pro-Select, K&N, Mobil 1, Bosch, and Mahle all in equivalent size on my Bus to check pressure. All pressures read fine--about the same--and never had an oil light flicker.
I got an OEM VW (Mann built) from the local dealer but haven't tried that one yet.

Looks like the stuff has settled pretty well. Again, these were all dipped in the same solution at the same time.
The Wix and M1 are a reference point for visual comparison because we know the published data on the Wix as a "nominal 21 micron" filter. (it is supposed to catch halfthe particles of that size.)
The M1 is sold as a premium "high efficiency" filter with an advertized efficiency of 99.2%.
So these can give an idea of the effectiveness of the Mahle and Mann for which we have no advertized specifics.


Left to right, Mahle, Mann, Wix, and Mobil 1:

looks like Mobil 1 is the winner.

Sluggo wrote:looks like Mobil 1 is the winner.

Yea, but it's sold as a high efficiency type and costs $13. No surprise.
I was up at the parts store today and they did list the M1-204 as for a Bus in the book they had.
I'm gonna test a new $14 K&N HP-2004 now compared to a new $6 PureOne PL14670.
These are Late Bus specific.
This is getting expensive--but kind of addictive.

Thanks for the update, Hippie. Based on what I'm seeing, I don't see a pressing reason to stop using either the Mahle or Mann filters. I will think twice about using the Wix again, though.

Muchas gracias!

Sure welcome bretski, it's kind of fun.

I'd just keep on with the Mann, Mahle.
It's nice to know you have other good, locally available options in the M1 and Purolator stuff.
Wix is really a well built filter but I'm a little dissapointed in the actual filtration. But if you look at there website where they publish the efficiency data (and can interpret it) it is not sold as a competitor for the high efficiency brands. So no surprise there.
Wix's 21 micron nominal rating isn't that great when most wear occurs from particles in the 3-30 or 10-20 micron ranges--depending on who you listen to.
Still, any filter probably doubles engine life from abrasive wear compaered to the old "no filter" engines. (according to the 1950s tests by Ford)

x'lent report hippie. i'm going to share with my wife who uses filters on her american pos. she brought home a fram last time and i didn't have the heart to say exchange..now i'm imaging that fram in there wilting. oooph.