Vanagon issues...low compression...

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asiab3
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by asiab3 » Sat May 26, 2018 9:14 am

He had a wait list last time I checked; I don't think he needs the advertising. :pirate:

Which car would you install them on?

--

When I picked up a 2.0L FI bus years ago and later sold it, the engine had about 4,000 miles when the unimproved AMC head gave concerning valve adjustments every 200 miles on an intake valve that tightened itself into oblivion. I can't recall if the seat was soft or if the seat wore into the head, but the valve itself was so recessed that the cylinder would not fire. Len's heads pass the IAC math problem. How does it go, Colin? If something costs twice as much and lasts four times as long………

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

cegammel
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by cegammel » Sun May 27, 2018 5:53 pm

Okdokie. I am drunk. FIY. I have BD lifters in this engine. They have been noisy and slow to pump for the last four years. Is it possible that simply a bad lifter on my #4 exhaust is causing all of my problems? Can I test simply by setting the engine to TDC on #2 and pushing on the #4 exhaust valve? If the lifter sponges away then I have a culprit? My little engine runs so sweetly, I hate to tear it apart for a possible valve failure. It is lovely in every way, except for that damned compression drop. 125 to 100 to 90 to 60, over a year.

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SlowLane
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by SlowLane » Mon May 28, 2018 11:49 am

cegammel wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 5:53 pm
Okdokie. I am drunk. FIY. I have BD lifters in this engine. They have been noisy and slow to pump for the last four years. Is it possible that simply a bad lifter on my #4 exhaust is causing all of my problems? Can I test simply by setting the engine to TDC on #2 and pushing on the #4 exhaust valve? If the lifter sponges away then I have a culprit? My little engine runs so sweetly, I hate to tear it apart for a possible valve failure. It is lovely in every way, except for that damned compression drop. 125 to 100 to 90 to 60, over a year.
Your original description of the exhaust valve sticking out so much more than the other valves pretty much rules out a lifter being the direct cause of your low compression. A valve sticking out could only be a few things: sunken valve seat, disintegrated valve seat ( can happen with sintered seats, but our heads don't have those, AFAIK), or a valve head that has broken up or separated from the stem. The fact that you have any compression at all points to the sunken seat.

Now, a bad lifter may have been an indirect cause, because Len has recently written about his opinion that it isn't necessarily high CHT that causes valve seats to come loose, but the hammering on the seats that occurs when lazy lifters don't pump up promptly. If you decide to go with a pair of his heads, maybe ask him about that.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

cegammel
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by cegammel » Mon May 28, 2018 5:40 pm

That was my thought as well. So, would it be prudent to change lifters while I am in there? Mine have been slow to pump for the life of the engine, until recently. Over the last several months, I have had very few incidences of air bound lifter noise, but previously the number 4 was consistently noisy.

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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by cegammel » Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 am

Just ordered my Hoffman heads! I splurged on the ceramic coatings and CHT notch.

It looks like about six weeks now to straighten out the rest the engine. Len suggested a full removal and inspection of my lifters, then to crank them down and see if they offer resistance.

Perfect condition adjusting screws are also a must on the new heads.

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SlowLane
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by SlowLane » Wed May 30, 2018 3:56 pm

cegammel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 am
Just ordered my Hoffman heads! I splurged on the ceramic coatings and CHT notch.

It looks like about six weeks now to straighten out the rest the engine. Len suggested a full removal and inspection of my lifters, then to crank them down and see if they offer resistance.

Perfect condition adjusting screws are also a must on the new heads.
1. Don't cheap out on the new adjusting screws. Get Genuine VW ones if you can. I once had a set of cheapo adjusting screws, sold to me by a well-respected engine builder in Surrey B.C., which had no heat treatment whatsoever and started shedding curls of metal within 50 kilometers of installation. This well-respected builder claimed to use the same screws in his customer's engines. :angryfire:

2. I'm not sure if this is a real problem, but it occurs to me that if a lifter had any sort of mushrooming on its head at all, then it would gouge up the lifter bore pretty badly on extraction, to the point of ruining an engine case. Personally I would be very careful when pulling lifters and stop if there is even the slightest hint of binding in the bore. Colin likely has a more informed opinion on whether this is an actual problem or not, based on his much greater exposure to these engines.

I'm envious of your decision to get HAM heads. Congratulations.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Wed May 30, 2018 8:30 pm

cegammel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 am
Just ordered my Hoffman heads! I splurged on the ceramic coatings and CHT notch.
Good for you! I splurged half way.... got the combustion chambers and exhaust ports coated, but skipped on the exterior coating. I got one CHT notch...just in case I decided to add one later.
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
::troll2::

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SlowLane
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by SlowLane » Wed May 30, 2018 8:54 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:30 pm
cegammel wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 am
Just ordered my Hoffman heads! I splurged on the ceramic coatings and CHT notch.
Good for you! I splurged half way.... got the combustion chambers and exhaust ports coated, but skipped on the exterior coating. I got one CHT notch...just in case I decided to add one later.
Hi Mike. Envious of your purchase, too.

Does Len clean off the casting flash on the heads? I was thinking that was a pretty labour-intensive job to ask a highly qualified machinist to perform, and I would be prepared to do it myself. But if one orders the outer heat-dissipative coating, then one would have to assume he removes the flash, otherwise you would be scraping it off when you did the job yourself.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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VWBusrepairman
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by VWBusrepairman » Thu May 31, 2018 6:30 am

good thread here. Been out of the bus engine world for a while. Glad to see someone is building quality parts. I'm curious to see what my cylinder heads look like when I pull the engine, which was built in 2007 with used parts, come copper coat, and some good luck. Keep on bussin'!
1968-1979 VW bus sunroof consulting, type IV engine analysis, QA technical work

TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Thu May 31, 2018 2:57 pm

SlowLane wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:54 pm
Hi Mike. Envious of your purchase, too.

Does Len clean off the casting flash on the heads? I was thinking that was a pretty labour-intensive job to ask a highly qualified machinist to perform, and I would be prepared to do it myself. But if one orders the outer heat-dissipative coating, then one would have to assume he removes the flash, otherwise you would be scraping it off when you did the job yourself.
I'll check when I get home...haven't had a chance to really ogle them.....traveling for work the past few days.
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
::troll2::

cegammel
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by cegammel » Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 pm

He takes care of flashing and overspray, he says. That is part of the cost of the heads.

For what it is worth:
BusDepot heads by AVP $219+ $95 core each
AMC heads $460 each
Hamheads $ $1495 + $225 for chamber ceramic + $25 CHT groove = $1745 for a pair of square ports.

I will be asking many questions concerning my lifters in coming weeks, as I am convinced that my "air bound lifter" was pounding my exhaust seat into my head.

cegammel
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by cegammel » Thu May 31, 2018 5:39 pm

Also...I never drive with the pedal down, rarely push past 52 mph, and never see head temps on VDO over 350.

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Mike Boell
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by Mike Boell » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:22 am

I too have my finger on the trigger but can not decide on the added cost for the ceramic coating.
Mike Boell
1975 FI Westy
Oregon City

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES - NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN THEY'RE PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.

TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:18 am

Mike Boell wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:22 am
I too have my finger on the trigger but can not decide on the added cost for the ceramic coating.
FWIW - I pulled the trigger for the ceramic coating only b/c I have a dream of driving the bus to Alaska. If I did not have this pipe dream, I probably would not have done it. If it is really hilly,and you drive it a lot, you might want to consider it.
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
::troll2::

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SlowLane
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Re: Vanagon issues...low compression...

Post by SlowLane » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:36 am

cegammel wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 pm
He takes care of flashing and overspray, he says. That is part of the cost of the heads.
Cool. Good to know. Thanks.
cegammel wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 pm
For what it is worth:
BusDepot heads by AVP $219+ $95 core each
Also for what it's worth:
I purchased an AVP rebuilt engine outright after my first experience with a dropped valve seat. About 25,000 km later, I had my second dropped valve seat experience on that AVP engine. :angryfire:
I then had the parts of two compete engines to rebuild into one good one (plus new heads, P&Cs, camshaft, lifters). I think the only parts that I ended up using from the AVP engine was a rocker arm and the pushrods (because the first engine had broken a rocker arm when the valve jammed open, and it also had solid lifters, and I was rebuilding with hydraulic lifters). The condition of every other part was better on my first engine than was on the AVP engine. There's a reason why their prices are so reasonable.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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