The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Wed May 23, 2018 7:36 pm

Got the replacement spring and socket today (and a backup!). Socket is brass. Courtesy of VW heritage.

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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat May 26, 2018 10:55 am

Well, checked the thermostat box today. Installed it cold, adjusted it taught. Drove around a few minutes, the thermostat expanded releasing the tension on the flap springs til it fully retracted. Seems a slightly more taught when it's hot than the pix in Ratwell's guide would suggest , but the spring does fully retract. The rubber grommet for running the cable up was still there too!

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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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satchmo
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by satchmo » Sat May 26, 2018 12:21 pm

The thermostat usually expands to about the width of the cage when all is warm. Maybe the cable wasn't properly tensioned.

With the engine cold, make sure the flaps are in the fully closed position when you attach the cable (ie, push against the spring that wants to keep the flaps open as you pull on the cable and tighten the cable in place).

In my experience, proper tensioning of the thermostat cable is a two person job. It's just too hard to push against the flaps spring while simultaneously pulling the thermostat cable AND trying to tighten the bolt that holds the cable onto the flaps lever.

If you invite me down to Stone Brewery and buy me a beer, I'll be your helper :drunken:

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat May 26, 2018 12:38 pm

I used teeth to hold the cable taught, and a 7mm closed wrench to adjust easily while pushing spring with one hand and pulling taught with teeth. Seemed to work well, only took a couple minutes.

Thanks for the offer though! Only time I went to Stone Brewery was the one at the airport! Maybe we should coordinate a VW bus day at Stone Brewery..

:)
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Mon May 28, 2018 9:52 am

Cleaned up these intakes a bit. Noticed that the canister on the left feels more obstructed than the one on the right when giving it the suck test -- is that by design?

Image

I'm overdue for a dress-up for the whole engine, particularly tins. I'll probably wait until I have a place with a garage when I can pull the engine and do it all at once. How were these manifolds finished leaving the factory?
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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satchmo
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by satchmo » Mon May 28, 2018 10:40 am

I think they were manifold gray, but I won't swear on it. That's the color I painted mine.

Don't worry about those EGR valves unless you actually plan to hook up the EGR system. Without the EGR, you want to put a cap on those valve nipples and a plate over the EGR ports ( in the photo it looks like the ports are already blocked).

Satchmo
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Tue May 29, 2018 6:51 am

Great! I'll order a couple caps for those EGR valves.
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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asiab3
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by asiab3 » Tue May 29, 2018 7:00 am

Your local Ace Hardware has those caps in various hardware drawers in several colors. ;)

Good luck with the install- I just drove another original dual carb bus yesterday and I do love their personalities... Press the pedal down twice and boom! Flick the key to a fast idle. Drive away and “are you sure this isn’t fuel injection?”

See you at Stone!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:48 pm

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Well, thanks to Colin's help I've now got the bus back to its original dual Solex configuration. To anyone who reads this who is contemplating making an appointment with Colin -- do it now! The amount of knowledge, and effectiveness of your time with Colin is worth considerably more than the cost!

After a thorough ground-zero education, we did:

0) Valve adjustment. Noticed discrepancies between left side and right side valves with unknown history of last adjustment. Noticed that #3 intake was notably different from the rest (2.5 turns on #3, 2 turns on #4, vs 1.5 on #1 and #3)

1) Relocated the fuel pump and filters out of the engine compartment where it was mounted on the firewall. We added an inline filter to reduce the fuel line to the 5.5mm.

2) Removed the 009 w/pertronix and installed a correct 205J DVDA distributor. Installed a gorgeous new timing scale (Thanks Colin!)

3) Removed the dual baby webers, manifolds, linkage, and hoses.

3) Noticed the brake booster pipe had been cut at the ends and rigged with a pretty ugly multi spliced hose connection. Removed all of that, and ran hose from the cut ends of the pipe to a brass barb to the brake booster elbows, using clamps at the barb ends for a solid connection. Ordered a correct replacement pipe

4) Installed the original Solex carbs that have been rebuilt (thanks Volkzbitz!) with the original linkage, original linkage spring and new brass socket! Had to do some minor bending of the plates holding the linkage sockets at both carbs to get everything to fit and line up properly with the dashpot etc.

5) Removed the blocking plate that was installed at the firewall to block the warm air intake duct. Installed the correct "donut piece" inside the engine compartment. This was a huge pain in the ass with limited space and access, but we persevered.

6) Created a new wiring harness for the carbs copying the original factory harness which had seen better days and was missing an end

7) Connected new vacuum hoses

8) Fired right up. Did notice a small oil leak on the left valve cover. Pulled it, noticed some remaining residue, cleaned it it off and reseated. Fixed.

Some notes:

1) Retard was way too strong. I had purchased a NOS vacuum canister, going to verify it was the right one.

2) Pulling power from the idle jet solenoid on the left carb exhibited no change. Pulling the power from the solenoid on the right carb dropped as expected. Swapping solenoids between left and right carbs did not exhibit any change -- dropped fine on the right when unplugged, no change on the left.

3) On my baby-weber setup, whenever I would touch the brakes, the idle would drop -- I never realized this wasn't normal. I was able to experience what it *should* feel like in Colin's bus.

4) Pulling the #3 spark plug wire at idle exhibits *no change*!

Issues:

1) After driving around the neighborhood a bit, there is a definite hesitation/bucking noticeable most in 2nd and 3rd gear. Of course, it was worse right after Colin left ;)

Thoughts:

1) Can't believe how easily the car starts, and how responsive/smooth it feels other than the issue above. How easily it started up after sitting for 2 full days was a pretty remarkable change

2) The amount of engineering that VW put into this fuel delivery system is pretty incredible. It sure feels good to get all these parts back in the bus.

3) The VW community is a national treasure. Thanks again to Colin, Robby, Bill, Tim, and everyone else on the forums for helping me get this far

4) I still feel like I'm mentally trying to unwind from 4000RPMs. There's a very distinct feeling after the tsunami of information recedes and Colin drives away to his next appointment. Anxiety is sitting in on how I'm going to fix the issue above.

Plan:

1) Let the bus sit overnight, and do a cold valve adjustment in the morning, taking particular note to the #3 cylinder.

2) Check for vacuum leaks. Since I made the hose connection from the booster pipe to the manifolds, I was very very careful in how I did it. I made sure that the connections were tight. Follow the hose from the booster pipe through the firewall towards the front of the car to try and find a leak.

3) Figure out if I have the right vacuum can on the distributor.

4) ... Say a prayer and figure it out from here!
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:02 pm

I did just notice, as you can see in the picture post above, that the right hose underneath the right air-horn (next to the mixture reference) was disconnected from the pre-heat valve on the air cleaner right behind it. I've plugged that back in, and will see how it runs tomorrow after a cold valve adjustment, taking particular care to find 0 correctly, especially on #3!

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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by wcfvw69 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:48 pm

Wow, Tim's carbs look fantastic! They look brand new. To your question on the vacuum canister, it is the correct vacuum can for the 205J Bosch distributor. Tell us what's going on that you think it' pulling the retard timing back to aggressively? Where are you pulling the retard vacuum from?
1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by asiab3 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:05 pm

Nice looking setup Earle!

I think the right side red vacuum hose off the valve could be a vacuum leak if the thermostat control says so. Back in place should be a nice change, but when was it removed?

Wait until you go out of town for a few weeks and come back to hear those carbs bark to life before you can even release the key :)

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:07 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:05 pm
Nice looking setup Earle!

I think the right side red vacuum hose off the valve could be a vacuum leak if the thermostat control says so. Back in place should be a nice change, but when was it removed?

Wait until you go out of town for a few weeks and come back to hear those carbs bark to life before you can even release the key :)

Robbie

I was pretty shocked at how easily it turned over after sitting for two days and ripping all the old parts off. Typically I'd have to feather the gas while cranking to get it going, maybe have to restart it once depending on how cold it is. With no adjustments, just turning it over, flick of the key and fired right up.

Do need to figure out the hesitation/bucking, and whatever was going on with the left carb where the idle jet solenoid made no discernable difference disconnected at idle. I'm not sure when that hose became disconnected -- it certainly was not connected when we did our test drive, and noticed the hesitation/bucking. I didn't even notice it until I re-read my post above, and saw the picture... I had ordered the vacuum hose kit from German Supply -- the reference hose should have been black, and the large diameter hose was the wrong size, and we reverted to using the original one which I still had (foreground in that pic).

Hopefully after valve adjustments the morning, and reconnecting that hose it's resolved. Let me know when you're back in town!
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:18 pm

wcfvw69 wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:48 pm
Wow, Tim's carbs look fantastic! They look brand new. To your question on the vacuum canister, it is the correct vacuum can for the 205J Bosch distributor. Tell us what's going on that you think it' pulling the retard timing back to aggressively? Where are you pulling the retard vacuum from?
We seemed to have too much retard, and maybe Colin can chime in. It was a dramatic change removing lots of aftermarket parts, a tsunami of information to absorb, limited amount of time, and not much prior experience on my part. After re-visiting all of my notes from my time with Colin, plus re-reading the Hydraulic Lifter Adjustment post, I think I may have been a little too forceful in finding zero with the #3 valve adjustment. Hopefully that explains why pulling the #3 plug at idle had no change.

Also, apparently I had never experienced a properly operating brake booster, so I'll have to run that down. On my old setup, the idle would drop when touching the brake. I just assumed that was normal.

The left carb seemed to have an issue as the solenoids both worked fine on the right carb, but the left carb would have no noticeable change with or without power to the solenoid at idle.

I'll report back tomorrow, after a cold valve adjustment, and a rested mind.

Aloha.
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:46 am

Checked valves cold this morning. Everything is at 1.5 turns. Made sure to get a good seal on the valve covers while reinstalling them.

Pushed pedal to the floor and released, bumped key, fired right up to fast idle. Amazing

https://youtu.be/H-mSemmvtZo

https://youtu.be/8hm3D8dMGxQ

Noticed it smells awfully rich at the exhaust. Drove around the block, and the hesitation is certainly more of a "bucking" -- definitely isnt driveable now. I'm a little more confused now as we were at least able to drive it around the block a couple times yesterday. Revving it up at idle there's no hesitation. While driving the bucking starts at low RPMS, and continues/worsens when giving it some throttle (eg, normal acceleration), and seems to lessen when you really get on the throttle.

I've checked every connection for vacuum leaks in the engine compartment and don't see anything. The idle jet solenoids I'm running are the original ones from the factory when the bus was purchased new. I have put in an order for two new ones from bus depot (the same 55s) to see if it makes a difference.
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1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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