Wdollie6 Bus Thread

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wdollie6
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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:52 am

Agreed the low idle issue after warm up is in the CIS circuit somewhere, I plan on going through that entire system to make sure this is addressed before making any adjustments. Wire connections to cut off, cut off operation, loose cut offs then will adjust only if necessary. While the surging could be related to the CIS issue, loose wire grounding out, it seemed way to consistent. So once I validate that everything is connected and tight will move forward with checking the filter on the pump (as I believe the surging could be fuel availability related). If that comes up clean then on to pump output and electrical; points, etc..

To your point this is probably something fairly simple. Will finally have time tonight to take a look.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Well that's embarrassing, the wire on the CIS was broken off the spade and the cut off for choke was so loose that it appeared to be making inadvertent contact. Fixed both and back to happy motoring, should have checked before posting but was at the office.

Next step, find the final solution for the shock stud's buggered threads.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:12 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:30 pm
Well that's embarrassing, the wire on the CIS was broken off the spade and the cut off for choke was so loose that it appeared to be making inadvertent contact. Fixed both and back to happy motoring, should have checked before posting but was at the office.

Next step, find the final solution for the shock stud's buggered threads.

Well, there you go. Now, about the shock mounting stud. You know that they are held in with a roll pin, right?

a) get the correct arms

b) punch out the roll pin and old stud, drill carefully for new stud (you need a slight interference fit) tap in new stud to roll pin insertion depth, it is in the Bentley.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:41 am

I did contemplate your proposed approach however discovered that the threads on the outer part of the stud were fine, apparently where the nut had been previously on these arms is where the damage occurred. Chased threads one more time with 10M-1.25 die, then added spacer washer and jam nut with blue loctite. I was able to torque the nut but was concerned that I didn't have 1-2 threads on the outside of the nut (threads were flush), the reason for the loctite. All is good for now as related to shocks, unfortunately the high idle, won't step down is back, so will work on that when I have some additional time. Daughter's wedding is priority, three weeks away.

I will say that FatBoy has never driven or handled better, ignoring the idle issue. He starts up with a little throttle, no choke and runs beautifully. Whereas previously I thought it handled and drove well, the difference is amazing, an even more enjoyable experience. Alignment is on Wednesday so will be downloading the specs. and providing to the shop, anything else I need to share as they have never aligned a VW bus. Their claim is they can align anything, seems a little boastful to me.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:05 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:41 am
Their claim is they can align anything, seems a little boastful to me.
Oh hail, we can do THAT, hey Jimmie! tell the man here how you aligned that tractor last week.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:06 pm

Type 2 Alignment.jpg
Well here are the results, right, wrong or indifferent, $80 worth. I provided the specs., they did the rest. They indicated that my toe in was way off, didn't surprise me as I did this with a spring loaded curtain rod contraption. They also indicated that they couldn't get the rear to move much, frankly I think my donuts on the torsion bars are worn, never checked those.

Thoughts on results? By the way if you can blow up the image enough you can see the specs utilized in the windows with the measurements.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:38 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:06 pm
Type 2 Alignment.jpg

Well here are the results, right, wrong or indifferent, $80 worth. I provided the specs., they did the rest. They indicated that my toe in was way off, didn't surprise me as I did this with a spring loaded curtain rod contraption. They also indicated that they couldn't get the rear to move much, frankly I think my donuts on the torsion bars are worn, never checked those.

Thoughts on results? By the way if you can blow up the image enough you can see the specs utilized in the windows with the measurements.

I don't think much of this waste of time.
1. Did you have the vehicle unloaded with a half tank of gas?
2. Any discussion about rear ride height / rear suspension adjustment BEFORE monkeying with camber and toe?
3. Any mention of WHY we can't get a simple positive camber for the left front wheel?
4. Their chart has me confused. We need toe OUT for the rear wheels, and they need to be the same or you will have rear wheel steering.
5. A spring plate bushing/rear suspension adjustment/home alignment may be in our future.

ColinNanny
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:36 am

1. Not by plan but yes roughly 1/2 tank of gas. I did have the westy tent, blankets, minimal tools, nothing heavy.
2. No.
3. I asked about this and they said they couldn't get a positive result no matter what they tried. I asked if they rotated the eccentric both ways, answer yes. Makes no sense to me as positive camber should have been straight forward.
4. Agreed.
5. Agreed.

I will say that even though this didn't go as well as planned, the driving experience has improved significantly, a review of things accomplished in 2018:

1. Steering box seal replacement and adjustment. Play in steering wheel went from inches to just under an inch, no binding. Now that alignment is done can recenter steering wheel as the bus tracks incredibly straight (when I can find a road that allows that to happen).
2. Replaced Bus Depot "rebuilt" calipers with the originals I had removed (rebuilt myself of course) and replaced rotors. These brakes are amazing, never felt this type of braking in a VW.
3. Replaced ball joints, other than some installation challenges these tightened up the system immensely. No sloppiness, no noise, just nice smooth driving. I do have the return-to-center steering that is so coveted, not as much as previously but enough.

Items remaining for future opportunities:
1. Rear suspension update and adjustment.
2. High idle will not go away, tap on the pedal does nothing. When the bus is fully warm no issues, only on chokes do I have the issue. I will make some adjustments this weekend to see if I can address.
3. Cleaning up body work issues.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:42 am

Oh, did I say I really love this bus, FatBoy, while challenging at times, just keeps getting better!
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:23 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:42 am
Oh, did I say I really love this bus, FatBoy, while challenging at times, just keeps getting better!

These cars have that, that . . . thing.
I am enjoying a honeymoon with NaranjaWesty now that it is quiet on the road once more.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:35 am

High idle issue continues with oddities. On a cold start everything works as normal, depress the throttle to set the chokes, starts with higher, but acceptable rpm, hit the throttle after a few seconds and the rpm drops down as it is supposed to. Unfortunately there are one of two conflicting symptoms that occur next, either the car warms up and drops down to a nice, normal idle or more so as of late the rpms go very high (well above the initial fast idle cold start) after a shut down and restart.

Interestingly, at least to me, if the bus is driven until fully warm the idle under CIS works great, but if you shut it off and restart a few minutes later the over the top idle immediately returns. So it appears that when the bus is fully warm the CIS is doing its job, however when the manual choke cools down and reengages the high idle appears. I have played with some adjustments but can't seem to eliminate the issue. Again when completely warmed, coming to a stop the engine idles beautifully but once you shut down and restart the higher than acceptable idle returns. Note that I have no control of this idle from the foot pedal, i.e can't get it to drop down to lower levels by tapping the pedal.

Again as posted earlier, other than this issue everything is now performing beautifully, I would take this bus anywhere (and have been) without concern as all systems are go, with the exception of the idle of course.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:26 pm

wdollie6 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:35 am
High idle issue continues with oddities.

if you shut it off and restart a few minutes later the over the top idle immediately returns.

Classic, typical behavior.

1. yes, the choke bimetals are contracting too fast once the engine has warmed up.
a) either the chokes are adjusted too far "on"
or
b) the fast idle links are adjusted too zippy.

aa) you need to scribe current adjustments and go 1/2mm COUNTERclockwise on LEFT choke
........................................................................................1/2mm..................CLOCKWISE on RIGHT choke,

ab) repeat this incremental adjustment process until you have suitable slightly fast 30 second high idle when starting after it has warmed up on a cold day.

or

ba) loosen UPPER locknuts on each choke and rotate LOWER nuts 1/4 turn towards making the links shorter.

bb) repeat this incremental adjustment process until you have suitable slightly fast 30 second high idle when starting after it has warmed up on a cold day.

2. Preferably, you will check choke positions when you come back to the car after your brief foray into the convenience store or whatever when you are expecting this fast idle condition, and you will check throttle lever positions to see if one or the other is causing the the throttles to hang open too far.
Adjust only the one item that seems to be causing this symptom.

Yes, fun for all.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:10 am

Colin, the bus is safely put away for the winter so to date have not taken any of the outlined steps above. Will do so once the roads are salt and pebble free... should be late May early June in the Catskills . :pale:

When I was in NY a few weeks ago went to start the bus and the bug, the 66 did great the 72 had dead battery (radio drew it down, forgot to pop off the negative cable), worse it wouldn't take a charge, charger came back with "bad battery". This battery was brand new two years ago, "bad owner".
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:03 am

wdollie6 wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:10 am
Colin, the bus is safely put away for the winter so to date have not taken any of the outlined steps above. Will do so once the roads are salt and pebble free... should be late May early June in the Catskills . :pale:

When I was in NY a few weeks ago went to start the bus and the bug, the 66 did great the 72 had dead battery (radio drew it down, forgot to pop off the negative cable), worse it wouldn't take a charge, charger came back with "bad battery". This battery was brand new two years ago, "bad owner".
Sometimes, you can drop the battery squarely against the floor from a foot or so, a couple of times to knock off a little of the lead sulfate coating on the plates, then stick on the charger at 10 amps for a few hours and it will begin dissolving the lead sulfate and take a charge . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: Wdollie6 Bus Thread

Post by wdollie6 » Wed May 15, 2019 12:26 pm

After further review it appears that the issue with the high idle was once again operator error. I finally had some sun to work with today so I dug into the issue and immediately realized that the only problem was that the last person who worked on the chokes, aka me, never snugged the three screws up, on either one.

The chokes were way out of adjustment, the right one barely opened after fully warmed up, explains why the idle was continually going higher as apparently they were slowly working there way to not opening at all. I readjusted the chokes so that they opened the same amount at the same rate and all is now good (at least on one cold startup and trial run, will try another later).

Fatboy gets blamed but this owner is, more often than not, at fault.
1972 Superbeetle Convertible
1972 Westy Bus
1972 Beetle
1970 Fastback
1966 6V Beetle with Sunroof

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