Seeking Turn Signal Switch

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:57 pm

I used a tiny drop of gun oil on the moving parts above the contacts and sprayed it out with cleaner. All installed, I now have turn signals. Fun chasing wires, surprisingly supple and not a brittle mess.
I wish there was a way to really secure the turn signal properly, that clamp situation is destined to strip out. I shimmed with beer can and duct tape but you just can't get those screws REALLY tight.
Guess what, still no high beams so the relay must be bad. The old switch may still be ok, but it doesn't explain the smoking. Seizing up, maybe grit from Mt. Everywhere....
The switch I installed has about 1" longer lever, it is nice. Somebody said HEY MAKE IT LONGER and they did.
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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:34 pm

For security purposes, I notched a notch in the steering column that the half-circle-ring-detent indexes into. Man, that's a really wordy explanation. Here:

Image

(You can even see where the Dremel slipped as I was rushing to appease my dying power inverter.)


For best results, use a late summer's setting sun for workspace illumination:

Image
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:27 pm

Oh, and as I was munching on a cheeseburger, I remembered that the dimmer switch and relay system on a '69 is all before the current becomes fused. So if the relay switching path experienced too much current draw, the weakest point could have been the contacts, soldering, or wiring in the switch which wild have been the first place to melt and let the smoke out of.

Fuses are like filters that don't let smoke pass through them.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:29 am

I'll bet the switch shorting out caused that damn relay to fry, you are right. We also had record rainfall this winter, not helping electrical stuff.
Does the notch work? It seems to need a bigger OD for the steering column.
Really, a better clamp at the switch would have solved 50+ years of irritation for so many. Why cheap out on the switch when the rest of the Bus is solid (besides those stupid door panels)? The housing should NOT be pot metal...or at the least, longer thru-bolts with nuts to really get it tight. And VW used the same stupid design for many years...
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:47 am

Just for kicks out there screwing around today. Fuses all ok, and the dimmer relay clicked twice! Then not again. It is sounding like a bad relay more and more.
The old switch had a broken power wire to the high beam circuit that must have grounded out on a spring, fusing the plastic innards and probably damaging the relay.
I see the aftermarket stuff doesn't fit right:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... _id=327513
Argh old stock electrical parts....
Also found out my Bus is a hybrid of 1971 and 69 wiring due to a replacement nose in the early '70s. They must have replaced the entire front end as a unit...it has a VW replacement parts sticker on it way under the dash. The switch wiring is definitely '71.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:48 pm

I vaguely remember Tom Powell on The Samba telling me that mid-69 wiring does get a little screwy. Your and my buses were only a week or so apart on the line so we probably share the same wiring system. I have a later style 4-pin flasher relay, while Bentley says I should have a 9-pin style flasher relay. So who knows what the relay PN should be... Does the old relay have terminal numbers and/or part numbers?

(As an interesting side note, my '76 bus flasher relay went kaput in a catastrophic water incursion last month. It would occasionally click once or twice too, but usually did nothing.)

Clicking and flashing happily, you will be soon,
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:59 pm

I did find water damage on the bottom of the relay. It's the European style 5 blade, have to figure that one out.
Cleaned the contacts, and now I do have a flash of headlights with the high beam switch, but still no headlights. I'm hoping water got into the relay.
It is weird that the headlights are dependent on the relay to function.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:20 pm

Yeah, all headlight current must travel through the relay so the current path is in an "either/or" state.

4-pin relays are typically called "make and break," meaning they switch a component on and off. 5-pins carry the street name "changeover," because they, well, change over. If you wires plug into the relay directly with crimped connectors, you can walk into any auto parts store and pick up a 5-pin changeover relay with the following terminal numbers:

85
86
87
87a
30

If your car has the fancy style fuse block where the relay plugs into the block, you'll have to be picky about size and design. Otherwise just go for a good 5-pin relay from FLAPS. Wolfsburg West has them for $49 (ouch) so see if you can find one locally. They are not ACVW specific. Being unfused, I would be cautious about attempting a repair on the old one. If you open it and see an obvious problem, great, but if you don't fix it 100%, you could risk burning up another switch.

Good luck! I'm off to find cheap dimmer relays.
Robbie

EDIT: Napa can get this in store. I really like Echlin points, they are made well, so I would definitely try this one out if your local shop has one.
http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/ECHAR462
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:26 pm

http://www.autozone.com/electrical-and- ... ckfit=true

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... abilityTab_
It does plug right into the bottom of the fuse box (which has a 411 part number, not available in 1969 if I recall).
They are out there, around $25-50. Napa the most expensive.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:17 pm

Ahhhh if you have the block plug-ins, you definitely have some sorcery going on up there. I'm glad you found out what works.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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jtauxe
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by jtauxe » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:02 am

hambone wrote:Hi looking for a decent 1969 Bus switch and housing, mine has died a slow death.
211-953-513G
I am reluctant to trust the new stuff out there...over $100 and who knows?
Someone on Samba has NOS for $280 yikes. Would really like to keep this Bus as German as possible.
Ya know, if you are going to keep this bus, you should just go for the good stuff. $280 is not expensive for a switch like this. Have you ever gone to the dealer to look for something like this for a new car? It's at least this much. Do it right. It's really not that expensive.
John
"The bus came by and I got on. That's when it all began..." - Garcia/Weir/Kreutzman
http://vw.tauxe.net

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:57 pm

Oh man I wish my life wasn't all nuts right now...but $300 is out of the picture. I just spent over $500 on my front brakes, new German everything it hurts. A good used German switch should last a while, assuming it wasn't abused and sat in a box 15 years.
I am looking forward to a little prosperity in 2016 God willing.
P.S. I met a nice Bus guy today with a '69 Sportsmobile who tells me that 10ths on the speedo mileage counter didn't show up until 1971. Yep I got 'em, another clue to my '71 nose.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:30 pm

No tenths on Ma's odometer? What about Bus #2?

Brian's May of '68 doesn't have them, but my Feb of '69 does. Inquiring minds want to know!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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hambone
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by hambone » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:01 pm

Bus2 has a replacement dash pod. Alas, no control Bus.
Relay! Thanks to a guy down the road W. Germany still lives in my headlights.
The old one doesn't really seem bad inside, just a little corroded at the contacts. I think something got bent a little, wouldn't be surprised if it still works. Next time. Made in Ireland...
Man that "new" switch sure is smooth. And that extra 1" feels weird.
Thanks for all the help and therapy.
http://greencascadia.blogspot.com
http://pdxvolksfolks.blogspot.com
it balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine
your brand new leopard skin pillbox hat

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asiab3
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Re: Seeking Turn Signal Switch

Post by asiab3 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:38 pm

Hey, I'm glad you're getting it all sorted out AND retaining quality AND saving a few bucks AND inch-pinching.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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