The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
On the top of the case, centered just above the flywheel, are these stamps. Colin had cleaned this spot while looking for the dread "GEX" mark, evidently the black spot to my Long John Silver. Have not seen it, either on the case or the heads, yet. Does anyone know what this S S stands for? Also looks like a W and a 1.
- weisswurst
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Jivermo wrote:
Love to see those fins, finally. Colin, if you are bored, come on down.
Yes I agree, if you are bored, I'm totally in for a full day to do diesel vanagon stuff Colin!
BTW, I sorted out the oil breather run-away situation since your last test drive.
I did not get that list of what you think the Doka needs addressed since you drove it....
It's nice and hot here, just the way you like it!
jeff
"I drink, therefore yes ma'am..."
- Amskeptic
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
I am *loving* the sunny warm days here in Pensacola. I would enjoy a nice trip to Miami, but I am due in Arkansas and Los Alamos shortly . . . how . . . is . . . Austin's flywheel?weisswurst wrote: Yes I agree, if you are bored, I'm totally in for a full day to do diesel vanagon stuff Colin!
BTW, I sorted out the oil breather run-away situation since your last test drive.
I did not get that list of what you think the Doka needs addressed since you drove it....
It's nice and hot here, just the way you like it!
jeff
Jivermo, we shall move this thread to the Type 2 forum where you can make a story blog out of this most fascinating rebuild. If you have technical questions/issues, you can post to Engine . . . ya?
I like the crazy angle of the engine in that photograph, it is a signature of my times with whc03grady.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Shiver me timbers, lads. Hark there, boy, when you hear that tapping, can be only one thing...Blind Pew is on my heels, and he carries the black spot...
Aaaaaaiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
- energyturtle
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
That is some s*#t. How many miles did that GEX provide? I suppose that explains the missing sealing gasket. Do the case halves match, as I have heard that mismatched case halves are a common practice with those folks.
Scottie
Scottie
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
I'm guessing that it had a lot of miles on it. I put over 5,000 on it since I got it, and the guy who had it before me had it for 7 years and drove back and forth from Jersey to the keys over that time. From all appearances, it had been in the bus quite a while. Don't know about the case halves matching, but if mismatched that may explain why the thrust bearing began its rotation...not being properly held in place. I don't know, but I suspect a case search will begin soon. I'm already irked at not being able to drive this thing around.
- energyturtle
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
I have a few 1700cc cases. I can post pics if u want.
- Amskeptic
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Oh my, Pew Indeed!!Jivermo wrote:
Aaaaaaiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Fie to the plague.
Our sincerest apologies for your horrific malady,
from the entire staff at Itinerant Air-Cooled.
(what shall we find at the #1 main bearing dowel, a cheap replacement dowel that is 1mm too short to save the manufacturer .000000017 cents per unit?)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- Amskeptic
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
We cannot bash them with deleted sealing rings at this time.energyturtle wrote:That is some s*#t. I suppose that explains the missing sealing gasket.
Jivermo has updated us with:
We will give credit where credit is due, cuz lawdy knows theys demerits to come . . .Last night I went out to the barn, and went at the head with a razor blade. there was indeed a ring on the other cylinder, which I removed. Both rings are steel-magnetic.
ColinPiteouslySympatheticToJivermo'sAffliction
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Thanks, Scottie...let's see where I get with this over the weekend.
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
I'm there, and here is the culprit! Thrust bearing has been wallowing out, and that's what provided the interesting movement when we went to do the end play job. It sure seems a pity, because to my untrained eye, there doesn't appear to be anything else wrong with this engine. But, perhaps you more enlightened folks may notice something.
The saddle does not seem to have suffered beyond use. Is this pin too small, or was the case gripping the bearing faulty? When I put the bearing back in the saddle and push it down, I cannot shift it into the wallowed part. There must have been some play here.
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
No type IV syndrome in this case.
Lifters don't show any wear.
Camshaft, although dark colored, does not feel worn at all, when I run my nail over it.
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Bearing surface.
When I popped it out-here is what it says: STD. Guess that's good news.
Don't see wear here, either.
Now, other than a staggering amount of parts to clean, what next? Is this case salvageable, and what forensics path do I now embark upon to find out why this problem occurred? Do I pack it up, and send it off to Headflow Masters to rework. I am not enamored with the South Florida machine shops, although I should start asking around.
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Here is a better pic of the thrust bearing saddle. A straightedge across the three bearing saddles shows no gaps, and doesn't rock, on both engine halves. Also the case numbers match. I understand GEX is notorious for throwing together unmatched case halves.
- Amskeptic
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Re: The Irreverent Air Cooled Rebuild Adventure.
Congratulations. You have arrived at the conundrum and been validated.Jivermo wrote: Now, other than a staggering amount of parts to clean, what next? Is this case salvageable, and what forensics path do I now embark upon to find out why this problem occurred?
This is trickier than meets the eye. Bearing movement can cause imperceptible-but-critical wear of the saddle. When you look at the backsides of the bearings, they should not be shiny. You are fortunate that the case dowel hole is not wallowed out, but you now need to clean it very thoroughly (use a cold tank at a machine shop they will ding you for $20.00 +), then bolt up every main bearing bolt and peripheral bolt to proper torque, then get the bores measured by someone who can wield a top-drawer micrometer. We are measuring well within thousandths of an inch here.
My forensic guess here is that cheap too-small dowels were used, yes, but also the case was given a pass in the name of economy (thus the standard bearings) when it possibly needed to be bored to the next oversize. Remember, we have the actual case bore dictating the outside size of the bearings, and we have crankshaft journals dictating the inside size of the bearing. You can have std/std you can have .25/std, you can have .25/.25, you can have std/.25, now add to all of the prior derivations the .50 over/undersizes available, AND the undersizes for the thrust bearing where it is longitudinally indexed to the crankcase.
The best check of main bearing alignment is with a boring bar.
The bearings are supposed to be a press fit into the case, no wiggle. Remember that the case expands as it gets hot, so the bearings need to fit securely at room temperature. This is especially important for the thrust surfaces of the #1 main bearing, our problem child.
Bring your cleaned crankshaft (just wipe it down as dry as you can at home for politeness, no water) to the machinist-who-can-read-a-real-micrometer. You may need to have the crankshaft ground down at either/both the main journals and the connecting rod journals if they have gotten oval. After everything has been measured, you will have all the numbers you need to obtain the correct bearings. This includes the connecting rod bearings. Are yours also std?
Colin
(p.s. got the Tom Wilson book? It pretty much describes everything I flitted on about . . .
pay particular attention to the mm vs inch machine work vs metric bearing oversizes issues)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles