IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

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ruckman101
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by ruckman101 » Sat May 10, 2014 11:16 pm

I'm with the kid, great work asiab3!

neal
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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 11, 2014 7:17 am

asiab3 wrote:The bus shall live to see another adventure :cheers:

Not that it took a lot of brains to figure out...

We started with a pop quiz of "what am I pointing to?" to assess their knowledge (and willingness to learn,) when I was suddenly told we had three hours to work instead of eight. Ok, better go quick! A brief overview of VW engines, L-Jet, and Kettering ignition followed, with poorly drawn diagrams by yours truly. Although the engine is not REALLY 16 rectangles and circles with labels, I thought I did a good job drawing it like a Venn diagram showing how different parts are related. (ie- how the fan cools and engine AND heats the cabin. Or how the amount of air and amount of fuel has to be correct, and how the AFM meters one and "dispenses" another. We ignored things like the AAR and CSV for now.)

We started getting dirty with a valve adjustment since the engine was cold. All of the exhaust valves were tight, and most of the intakes too. They told me "it starts and drives fine but won't idle when you stop." True to tale, it started. Well, I guess you could say it started. The starter chugged mightily while the engine gave occasional coughs of smoke. Almost 20 seconds of chugging got the bus running. Rough, but running.

I'm sorry, I know FI buses don't start with a quick flick like a cold carb bus does, but this was absurd. Add piss-poor start to the list of symptoms. Since valves were known good, I hooked up my timing light and dwell meter. 205AB distributor (originally DVDA, here with an advance-only replacement can,) showed 5* atdc at idle, (20* hoses off,) which is the idle spec if you follow the book with a working/existent vacuum can. I bumped it to 28* hoses off, and noted that the vacuum advance went to nearly 40* on high RPM overrun. Now it idled around 5*btdc. I personally think the installed vacuum advance can is too much for a bus. It looks tiny and not the same silver color as Bosch cans.

Now I know my 1600 is in good shape, and it revs quickly with quick throttle actuation, but this 2.0 looked better than it sounded. Ok, timing is good, but I should have set dwell first what does the meter say now SEVENTY????? Yes, the dwell meter read 70* so I chuckled inside and shut it down. Removed the distributor to show them points and how they open… Wait… I know I still have a lot to learn, but I KNOW points are supposed to open and close. Under a microscope these probably opened too, but I could not get my .003 (smallest at hand) feeler gauge in there. Add to that a GIANT pit/tit combo, and you get this distributor. I have a bazillion sets of points floating around my back seat, glove box, jetta, sock drawer, so I gave them one. Want to know how to impress someone who's never worked on cars? Show up with a bin of parts that they need, right at that moment. :) They baked me brownies and had a bin of fresh fruit waiting for me afterwards. Best 10$ I've ever spent.

I know Type4 engines aren't any "harder" to work on, but I'll be dipped in weasels if the clamp and timing nuts aren't a pain to get to compared to my T1 bus. The distributor went in fine, and we started it up and it ROARED to life instantly. Their kid came RUNNING down the stairs and stared yelling and cheering. These cars have soul, this kid can tell too. I really feel like this family has a renewed interest in this bus, and I'm glad I could surprise them with how easy it is to make a big fix with only a little effort and willingness.

Yeah yeah we did the timing properly after setting dwell, and test drive rewarded us with a NASTY grind with every attempt at 2nd gear. The stop plate ended up being in backwards. I felt a pain in my heart when I was mentally debating the diagnosis when I saw him go for reverse without pressing down. Now we're shifting smoother, running good (not great, more on that later,) and they can't wait to take it to her dad's house (original owner) next month. I know there's a lot of techno babble in here, and there was definitely too much information exchanged at them by me today. But all that evaporated when I saw their faces light up and son start cheering. This is why I can't let these cars suffer.

(Ok, so idle is fairly smooth, but I hear a TINY hiss coming from somewhere in the intake system. I sprayed every connection, wiggled every connection, and could not hear or see a change. Does any component in a proper L-Jet system naturally hiss? The only issue I SAW was the brake booster pipe- the one way valve was in front of the fire wall, and in the engine compartment was the plastic 69-70 brake fluid reservoir hose clamped INTO the rubber Y from the decal valve/intake plenum/brake booster. It went through the firewall and was then clamped into a rubber gates brake hose then into the check valve, then into the metal main tube. Is the real compartment booster line metal, rubber, or a hybrid? I have no prior experience with power brakes :blackeye: but I would love to narrow down the cause of hissing.)
This reads like Son Of Itinerant Air-Cooled visit. I knew I was gonna be obsolete some day . . . :blackeye:

I too am motivated to reduce the stupid suffering these cars patiently endure as we try to figure them out.
The hiss is normal. There is a fierce little air flow bottleneck at the idle air screw/throttle plate and there are some weird air currents between the decel valve/intake manifold/s-boot.
Closed breaker point gaps cause hard starting.
Vacuum advance can go to 40*BTDC, this is normal.
Fuel injection most definitely can start with close to a flick of the starter, I will have you know.
Congratulations on your Itinerant Air-Cooled Ambassadorship. Now you have a taste of what the last twelve years have been like for me . . . except for flywheel dowels,
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Sun May 11, 2014 8:18 am

Thanks for the kind words you two.

Colin, I know you do a LITTLE more than replace points :compress:

So is it true the T4 bases can take a little more advanced timing than a T1 overall?


Side story- the Hollywood Bowl has a WONDERFUL parking lot, with 10 levels of switchbacked parking rows. Kinda like Alcatraz but bigger and longer. It was fun to take my pokey bus DOWN the switchbacks trying for the "fastest line" in, around, and out of all the corners with the elevation changes. It was fun to take this 2.0 bus UP the switchbacks!
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Sun May 11, 2014 9:34 pm

asiab3 wrote: Colin, I know you do a LITTLE more than replace points :compress:
??
asiab3 wrote: So is it true the T4 bases can take a little more advanced timing than a T1 overall?
All Volkswagens can take more timing. It merely shortens the life of the engine, both in hotter temps and greater stress. I do not even listen to people who tell me that the engine can take more timing. I don't *need* what more timing offers!
I like slightly retarded, nice and smooth and cooler running (exhaust/exhaust valves run a little hotter).
I only advance past factory specs at high elevations. Also note that a vacuum advance number (like 36* in the Type 1s and 40* in the Type 4s) only occurs at light loads or overrun.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Sun May 11, 2014 10:45 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote: Colin, I know you do a LITTLE more than replace points :compress:
??
I knew I was gonna be obsolete some day . . . :blackeye:

I was catching your sarcasm and raising you more. I couldn't get my damned steering box off today; your help will always be needed in this community.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 14, 2014 6:35 am

asiab3 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:I knew I was gonna be obsolete some day . . . :blackeye:
I was catching your sarcasm and raising you more.
As and when you get to know me, you will discover that I am more rueful less sarcastic.
I come from a line of once well known people who had/have to meet their obsolescence . . . as we all do.
What a great birthday card for a five year old! "Happy Birthday To a Future Obsolescent!"
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by ruckman101 » Wed May 14, 2014 10:47 am

In Mexico your birth marks the first day of your inevitable death.


neal
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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:24 am

I visited this bus again, and I have some new stories. As it turns out, I don't think it was ever planned to be SCRAP, but the family interest in the bus is now higher than ever.

Now that it's drivable, the family realized how bad the (original) shocks were. I outfitted them with a new set of four, lubricated the front suspension, and adjusted the stop plate that somehow had gone completely out of adjustment from last time… Well in my haste to get it running and shifting in May, I never FULLY observed the owners' driving habits. Oops. This poor bus has had it's clutch used as a footrest, shifter used as a hand rest, and a HEAVY gorilla-fist into every gear, up and down, synchronizers be damned. I took this opportunity to slap the resting legs, whack the resting hands, and show them that you can shift with one finger. Shifts now take a half-second longer, and I swear the bus spoke to us in a thankful song up to 4,500 RPM as we dodged into and quickly off the 101 before we ran out of gas for the second time.

This car has more cosmetic rust than any bus I've ever seen in Southern California, but apart from the vent windows and outer rockers, the frame is remarkably rust-free. I put a screwdriver straight through a nasty patch of bubbles right as the wife swung by to observe, and she did utter a little scream. The outer rocker consisted of about 10% paint and 90% garbage. Dirt, rust, dust, you name it- we cleaned it out.

I can't figure out why I like this bus so much. Maybe it's speaking to us for giving it a second (third? fourth?) chance on life.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:30 am

asiab3 wrote:I visited this bus again, and in my haste to get it running and shifting in May, I never FULLY observed the owners' driving habits. Oops.

I can't figure out why I like this bus so much. Maybe it's speaking to us for giving it a second (third? fourth?) chance on life.

Robbie

The test drive is such an important part of resetting a VW's future course. I always go first as a matter of tact. I have seen owners take mental notes and valiantly attempt to replicate some of what they witnessed when they are subsequently handed the wheel. It is a private agony when I see a violent shifter go ape, I say a little prayer for the suffering transaxle. About one in ten customers are yanked right back out of the driver's seat for an advanced lesson in longevity driving techniques.

You follow your intuition. That bus may have an unexpected future . . . like what happened with Vdubtech's Rusty Bus (sadly, it was recently sent to the knackers behind a Ford Escape, eeew).
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:39 pm

Amskeptic wrote: You follow your intuition. That bus may have an unexpected future . . . like what happened with Vdubtech's Rusty Bus (sadly, it was recently sent to the knackers behind a Ford Escape, eeew).
asiab3 wrote:…the couple that owns this bus wants to scrap it. They said they will wait for me to inspect it to see if it can be fixed for cheap. I'm fairly certain it can be, and I want to help them feel a little bit of Volkswagen Love so they might respect the bus more. I hope they take a liking to it enough to call upon Colin's service. If they don't, I'll buy them out of it to keep it out of the crusher.

Well, we tried. The family has too much going on in their life, and they haven't touched the bus in eight months. I pick up the bus this Friday. It will start a new life as my surf/hauling/workhorse vehicle. A "Son of Rustybus," if you will. :blackeye:

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:01 pm

asiab3 wrote:The family has too much going on in their life, and they haven't touched the bus in eight months. I pick up the bus this Friday. It will start a new life as my surf/hauling/workhorse vehicle. A "Son of Rustybus," if you will. :blackeye:

Robbie
I had a similar experience. They didn't touch it for twenty years.

So, do I get to visit it in Newhall, or will it be in Oceanside along the frigid Pacific misty cloudy dank shoreline?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:55 pm

Amskeptic wrote: So, do I get to visit it in Newhall, or will it be in Oceanside along the frigid Pacific misty cloudy dank shoreline?
I don't plan on keeping it for too long. I have to drive to the Atlantic Ocean by this time next year and need it to have a new home by then. And PLEASE… it WILL get the second garage berth. The fancy new Jetta will have a crippling electrical issue before its paint succumbs to the elements. :bounce:

Previous owner/mechanic was a dump truck mechanic by trade. This might not bode well for the PO eviction I'll be doing with the fiiiinnneee German engineering. My bus takes priority in our appointment this summer, but you're welcome to drive BlueBus when you drive through on your way to Ocean Beach. The shifter is on a record-setting streak of going almost two years of not grinding reverse when going for second. :cheers:


EDIT: I have injector seals, a TS2, and ten feet of wire with connectors. Anything else I should bring besides the usual suspects? (Points, cap, condenser, etc…) We're only going 200-ish miles.

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by SlowLane » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:32 am

asiab3 wrote:
EDIT: I have injector seals, a TS2, and ten feet of wire with connectors. Anything else I should bring besides the usual suspects? (Points, cap, condenser, etc…) We're only going 200-ish miles.

Robbie
Standard mantra, here and on TheOtherSite, when someone asks this question is: "replace the fuel hoses", followed by anecdotes and pictures of burning busses. Among the work that you've done so far, I haven't seen any mention of fuel hoses.

The type IV L-jet system has a lot of little short pieces of hose, which means lots of hose-to-nipple interfaces, which translates to many potential failure points.

I recommend that you bring along a length of Cohline 2240.0600 hose. 2 meters ought to be enough (actually, that's enough for a Vanagon. I' m not sure about for a bus). And a box of fuel-injection rated hose clamps, either the ABA screw clamps or the Oetiker ear clamps. Check ratwell's site for a good primer on hose clamps. Actually, I have a bag of Oetiker clamps of the correct size. I can mail some to you.

The Cohline 2240 line of fuel hose is their low-permeation hose. It is intended for bio-diesel applications and meets or exceeds the SAE J30R9 specification. The 0600 size is the perfect 7.3 mm ID fit for the 8 mm fittings on our L-jet systems. I had a recent discussion/argument on TheSamba about this hose vs. the 5/16 hose most people use. Google should be able to find it easily enough.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:49 pm

Thanks SlowLane. I'm on phone call number five looking for that line locally. Two more "no" calls and I'm going to grab some 7mm line from the BMW dealer down the street. I have a box of nice ABA screw-type clamps; which did the factory use?

I'm hosting a work party Saturday night where we will, in no particular order:
flush/adjust the brakes
paint the rims
install side mirrors
change the fuel lines
clean some grounds
get the rag out of the filler neck (funny story there...)
check timing/dwell
LM-1 probe the engine, (which doesn't currently run)
drown the pinch welds and drain holes in rust-catalyzing primer
add hypoid oil to full level, (changing next next week)

Wish I was in Portland with a contingent of willing folks to drink beer while I worked.... Any members here near North Los Angeles are invited, Saturday evening 6pm!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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SlowLane
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by SlowLane » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:04 pm

asiab3 wrote:Thanks SlowLane. I'm on phone call number five looking for that line locally. Two more "no" calls and I'm going to grab some 7mm line from the BMW dealer down the street. I have a box of nice ABA screw-type clamps; which did the factory use?
The factory used ear clamps on the injector stubs, I believe, and ABA-type clamps (though with a button Phillips head instead of the hex+Phillips on the ABA clamps) for the rail clamps.

Pelican Parts sells the 2240.0600 for about $20/meter. Don't know how close they are to you. GoWesty also carries it.

I'm sure that BMW hose would be a suitable replacement, at least for the short-term. Cohline is OEM supplier to BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, so odds are that the BMW hose will be re-branded Cohline, though perhaps not the sooper-dooper 2240 stuff.

I also have some of the larger 2240.1019 hose which is a perfect fit for the short piece between the fuel filter and the fuel pump (12mm nipples). If you let me know the length of this piece on your bus I can cut one and sent it to you with a couple of ear clamps.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
- Terry Pratchett

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