chirping noise
- chitwnvw
- Resident Troublemaker
- Location: Chicago.
- Status: Offline
chirping noise
So my cries of hallelujah became muted this afternoon, when after a year plus, the Troutmobile roared to life. A year ago, the number 3 cylinder showed 0 psi compression and prompted me to remove it and send it to a machinist. While looking at the dirty engine compartment, piece after piece of tin and any thing else in the engine compartment was removed, cleaned and painted. On assembly there were a few missteps, but finally this afternoon, he roared to life...only to be accompanied by this tinny chirping sound that can be heard here:
http://youtu.be/GsiFok9PVYoff
I can't hear it when just cranking the starter, it only can be heard when running, and if I pull the spark plug wire to number 3 it also goes silent.
http://youtu.be/GsiFok9PVYoff
I can't hear it when just cranking the starter, it only can be heard when running, and if I pull the spark plug wire to number 3 it also goes silent.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
That might be the famous nasty head leak chirp if it is an air sound versus a twittering piece of sheetmetal:chitwnvw wrote:So my cries of hallelujah became muted this afternoon, when after a year plus, the Troutmobile roared to life. A year ago, the number 3 cylinder showed 0 psi compression and prompted me to remove it and send it to a machinist. While looking at the dirty engine compartment, piece after piece of tin and any thing else in the engine compartment was removed, cleaned and painted. On assembly there were a few missteps, but finally this afternoon, he roared to life...only to be accompanied by this tinny chirping sound that can be heard here:
http://youtu.be/GsiFok9PVYoff
I can't hear it when just cranking the starter, it only can be heard when running, and if I pull the spark plug wire to number 3 it also goes silent.
Loose (or defective new) spark plug,
Possible leak at exhaust manifold, but usually exhaust will be noisier when you goose the throttle,
Damaged head sealing surface or out-of-position sealing ring if you used one
It may go away if you let the engine warm up. If it does, drive it. Let the engine get warm. You are hoping that surfaces may settle in.
If it is as bad the next morning when cold, head comes off.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- chitwnvw
- Resident Troublemaker
- Location: Chicago.
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
No luck getting things to settle in, it was as chirpy warm as it was cold, maybe even more so. The engine dies when I pull the spark plug wire to 1 or 2 with no change if I pull number 4 wire, which leads me to believe 1 and 2 are doing all the work...
Looks like I have a project for tomorrow...
Looks like I have a project for tomorrow...
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
I still can't shake that photograph of head removal in the snow ...chitwnvw wrote:No luck getting things to settle in, it was as chirpy warm as it was cold, maybe even more so. The engine dies when I pull the spark plug wire to 1 or 2 with no change if I pull number 4 wire, which leads me to believe 1 and 2 are doing all the work...
Looks like I have a project for tomorrow...
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- chitwnvw
- Resident Troublemaker
- Location: Chicago.
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
Iconic imagery!
Tomorrow...today, is supposed to be close to 50, it'll be a walk in the park.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
That one. Excruciating. I can feel the wet socks, the snow creeping down my neck, the oily cold clumsy fingers, the dead engine with little greasy nuts and bolts dropping on the cold damp ground under the car, the shirt that has become untucked as you scrooch under the oily engine, it is terrible.chitwnvw wrote:
Iconic imagery!
Tomorrow...today, is supposed to be close to 50, it'll be a walk in the park.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- chitwnvw
- Resident Troublemaker
- Location: Chicago.
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
Looks like the sealing rings were leaking.
The sealing rings are looking a little wavy washer-esque, is it ok to put it back together reusing these rings?
The sealing rings are looking a little wavy washer-esque, is it ok to put it back together reusing these rings?
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
Find out why. Fix.chitwnvw wrote:Looks like the sealing rings were leaking.
ok to put it back together reusing these rings?
No.
Colin
(I think you may need to do a very light flycut on the head spigots.)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- chitwnvw
- Resident Troublemaker
- Location: Chicago.
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
This lip is measuring .305 inches.
This is measuring .270 inches.
Sealing ring is .029 giving me a couple thousandths of an inch of a gap.
Is it acceptable to take a grinder to this area:
And shave off a couple of hundredths?
This is measuring .270 inches.
Sealing ring is .029 giving me a couple thousandths of an inch of a gap.
Is it acceptable to take a grinder to this area:
And shave off a couple of hundredths?
- satchmo
- Old School!
- Location: Crosby, MN
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
Yes, you can.
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
-
- Old School!
- Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
chitwnvw wrote:
Iconic imagery!
Tomorrow...today, is supposed to be close to 50, it'll be a walk in the park.
That head has been overheated more than once (coking of the oil). Which led to the failure of the head gasket that shouldn't have been used in the first place. Time to rebuild both heads. Just remember...skimp and you'll be doing it twice and doubling the price.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
There are many "conventional wisdoms" in VW Land that I am devoted to challenging.72Hardtop wrote: That head has been overheated more than once (coking of the oil).
Which led to the failure of the head gasket that shouldn't have been used in the first place.
Time to rebuild both heads.
Just remember...skimp and you'll be doing it twice and doubling the price.
The engine in the snow photograph was from (a couple?) years ago. Different file.
Chitwnvw nailed the cause of his current leak, too deep of a flycut. Sealing rings are mandatory.
Though pricey, chi, Air-Cooled.Net has good solid copper rings that will work well without having to file away the surface as seen in satchmo's photograph.
The TSB recommending the deletion of the sealing rings had to do with a different issue than some unusual sensitivity to failure experienced by these rings. They were deleted to improve the immediate heat conduction from the heads to the barrels under transient loads to prevent a rash of 94 piston scuff/seizures in the 2.0 engines due to too rapid expansion of the aluminum. Every point in that bulletin was exactly devoted to warming barrels and cooling pistons > notching the connecting rods)
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- satchmo
- Old School!
- Location: Crosby, MN
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
Yes, but...if the initial problem was caused by premature contact between the head and some cylinder fin cast flashing or something, wouldn't it be easier to deal with the contact spot rather than getting new thicker sealing rings, re-figuring the deck height and the compression ratio, and finding new barrel spacers to make it all like it was supposed to be? Just wondering.Amskeptic wrote: Chitwnvw nailed the cause of his current leak, too deep of a flycut. Sealing rings are mandatory.
Though pricey, chi, Air-Cooled.Net has good solid copper rings that will work well without having to file away the surface as seen in satchmo's photograph.
Colin
Tim
By three methods we may learn wisdom:
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: chirping noise
I personally would do some simple math, like the factory .028" - .030" sealing rings missed by .005" - .007" with chi's above numbers, so get some .040"s and clean the edges of the head spigots with a razor blade. Then, you have dropped the compression ratio a teensie bit in the safer direction, slap that sucker back together and hit the road. This with an actual road history with the car, which I think chitwnvw has from driving it across the country. If some other symptom is known about the engine, that would be entered into the decision-making. Chitwnvw, if you had stinky heat that you just couldn't resolve, here is your reason. Who did headwork on this engine last?satchmo wrote:Yes, but...if the initial problem was caused by premature contact between the head and some cylinder fin cast flashing or something, wouldn't it be easier to deal with the contact spot rather than getting new thicker sealing rings, re-figuring the deck height and the compression ratio, and finding new barrel spacers to make it all like it was supposed to be? Just wondering.Amskeptic wrote: Chitwnvw nailed the cause of his current leak, too deep of a flycut. Sealing rings are mandatory.
Though pricey, chi, Air-Cooled.Net has good solid copper rings that will work well without having to file away the surface as seen in satchmo's photograph.
Colin
Tim
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles