New issue...again

[RSorak 71Westy]

High capacity ignition systems are mainly needed by HIGH RPM engines running lots of compression, neither of which applies to a VW engine. All a VW needs is a reliable spark which the pertronix does very adequately.

[72Hardtop]

From what I can tell it basically still uses wires...like a traditional ignition system, still uses a distributor for timing/advance control.

It seems to have just eliminated the cap & rotor and increased the voltage to the spark plugs. Big question is how much of a performance boost is it compared to my current German 009/wPertronix that's been tweaked? For $399.99 it seems to have really just increased the voltage output. I guess if I want to do that I can just throw in a Pertronix 40,000 volt coil for a fraction of the cost.

Which of the two Pertronix 40,000 volt coils do I use with the Pertronix ignitor? I'm currently using the Pertronix ignitor (original) with a Bosch blue coil. Off hand...which side of the coil is + vs -? 15 pos/1 neg??? I'm drawing a blank now

[reluctantartist]

72Hardtop, how are the AA birals working for you? I have been inter3ested in these for a while and wondered if they are worth using as birals or nickies seem to be the only solutions for buses/vanagons if going above 94mm.

[Amskeptic]

I really like the idea of eliminating that 19th century revolving spark delivery system under the distributor cap.

You haven't driven the BobD . . . there was no need to "upgrade" the 19th Century spark delivery system on a 19th Century low-compression 2 valve engine that barely winds up more than a lawn mower.

What the heck do we do with all this voltage zinging around anyway? If my old bus started every damn winter for 30 years and got me to where I was going, how would you sell this Zippy Zap system to me?
Colin

[72Hardtop]

Need a ballpark figure here guys...

Approximately how many hours labor for the following:

1. R/R engine
2. Install new cylinders heads, swivel foot adjusters and new P/C's
3. Install new oil pressure switch, Front/rear seals, Pilot bearing, Clutch, Oil filter mount gasket, Replace oil cooler seals, Engine mounts

[Gypsie]

Need a ballpark figure here guys...

Approximately how many hours labor for the following:

1. R/R engine
2. Install new cylinders heads, swivel foot adjusters and new P/C's
3. Install new oil pressure switch, Front/rear seals, Pilot bearing, Clutch, Oil filter mount gasket, Replace oil cooler seals, Engine mounts

Talk about a busload of variables: tools, work area, skillset, parts sourcing/availability, condition of fasteners etc....)
I'll take a jab:
These are actively wrenchin' hrs
1. Remove engine: 1-8+ hrs (8 is a worst case scenario). Exhaust bolts can be a real bear without the right tools.

2. disassemble parts being attended to: 1-8+ hrs (maybe more if'n it's yer first time to learn the tricks with book/internet referencing breaks. I like the wilson book. The Bug me videos are helpful from what I hear.). Forensics are important here if you are tracking down symptoms, leaks etc. After you have checked it over for 'signs', clean the crud before pulling things apart, especially when you pull the heads and p/c's. You don't want any of the road crud getting in the case. Gasket and permatex scraping can be tricky, (no gouges!) (oil filler/ oil filter mount, etc) Personally I say if they are not leaking, leave em be. Prep case cylinder holes. All work done near these holes should be considered and done with materials that won't fall into the case. No sandpaper, steel wool etc. Gasket remover/solvent can be applied with a dobber/brush so over-spray doesn't get in there. I hear that the pilot bearing can be difficult to remove. Ft/Rr seal holes need thorough cleaning. Clean threads and nuts to your satisfaction. I recommend a bag of ziplocks and a sharpie to keep systems parts together and identified.

2a. parts prep: 3-6 hrs(this could be done prior to removal if you have the parts on the shelf) clean and prep parts to be installed (heads often need some flashing work to maximize air flow; CC calcs.; Swivel foot install). Pistons should be thoroughly cleaned. Some even recommend removing rings from new ones to assure no grit in the grooves. Use your best judgement. I cleaned with solvent/wd40 and compressed air without removal of the rings.

3. Reassemble. 3-10+ hrs. Too much to go over as each system will need it's own attention. Deck height calcs. need consideration.

4. install engine 2-10+ hrs. A second set of hands and eyes will be extremely helpful here.

So, my stab in the dark/no knowledge of your skill-set/ figgerin' is 10-42+ active wrenchin' hours.

Let's see what others say.

[Gypsie]

I looked back through some of your posts and get the impression that you may be well stocked and knowledgeable with some new theoretically prepped parts: my modified assessment is 10-15 hrs.

[72Hardtop]

I looked back through some of your posts and get the impression that you may be well stocked and knowledgeable with some new theoretically prepped parts: my modified assessment is 10-15 hrs.

Yes...reason I ask is I have it at a shop nearby and they've had it since early January. I make regular checks on the bus and was there yesterday. Everything was together and in the process of tin install. My guess (given my experience) was roughly 15-25 hours give or take. I know they have not been working on it everyday since it was dropped off due to calls/visits I've made. Seems a bit overdue if you ask me. I believe the labor rate is $85.00/hourly. I figure that it should be in the ballpark of $1700-$2100 given my past experience when working on them in a shop in Ca.

Unfortunately I was unable to do the work myself due to work and where I live (currently renting) manager would have a fit if you know what I mean.

[RSorak 71Westy]

A well equipped shop should be able to do this fastest of anyone. I had my type 1 engine out and PC off in about 3 hours, the 1st time I did it working lesurely. I am a pro wrench for a living though.

[Amskeptic]

Unfortunately I was unable to do the work myself due to work and where I live (currently renting) manager would have a fit if you know what I mean.

Ow ow ow ow. That's terrible. Gypsie's time frame estimate, did you multipy by 85 and pass out cold? I was going to estimate two full weeks assuming you had time to polish the screws and paint the insides of the deflector tins.

A shop should have the damn thing out, torn down, repaired, and reinstalled in 12 hours flat, i.e. two solid days in the shop, coffee breaks included.
[that includes grinding each rocker arm .060" to clear the Porsche (only!) swivelfoot adjusters]

[Gypsie]

Need a ballpark figure here guys...

Approximately how many hours labor for the following:

1. R/R engine
2. Install new cylinders heads, swivel foot adjusters and new P/C's
3. Install new oil pressure switch, Front/rear seals, Pilot bearing, Clutch, Oil filter mount gasket, Replace oil cooler seals, Engine mounts

Okay, I admit that I was adding hours for the tasks thinking it was for one of our own wrenchin' at home, not billable "shop time". As well I had you confused with another of our own that is considering a top end rebuild.

Billable 'shop time' will most often have a predetermined time spec'd and charge for each item per that spec. Some will cut you a break (specially if you ask the right questions). Hopefully you discussed a ballpark and have been keeping tabs.

Sorry ifn' I gave you palpitations.

[72Hardtop]

Unfortunately I was unable to do the work myself due to work and where I live (currently renting) manager would have a fit if you know what I mean.

Ow ow ow ow. That's terrible. Gypsie's time frame estimate, did you multipy by 85 and pass out cold? I was going to estimate two full weeks assuming you had time to polish the screws and paint the insides of the deflector tins.

A shop should have the damn thing out, torn down, repaired, and reinstalled in 12 hours flat, i.e. two solid days in the shop, coffee breaks included.
[that includes grinding each rocker arm .060" to clear the Porsche (only!) swivelfoot adjusters]

I've done as much as I could which included the following:

1.Removed the intake/carbs prior to trip to shop. (Done at home)

2. Prepping of all engine tins and shroud. (rust removal, sanding, brushing and painting). Was able to do this on my patio. Also replaced one missing shroud flap.

3. Re-installation of dual carbs (40IDF's) and re-adjusting of linkage geometry. (Completed at the shop by me). And as luck would have it the shop had already installed the engine without test fitting of the intakes . As one could imagine it wasn't an easy fit for the intakes due to the lower portion of the tin. I did manage to get them on without damaging the gaskets. Intakes seat squarely to the head. One would think that you'd want to test fit everything before you install the engine. At least that's how I've done it in the past.

4. Installation of new engine bay seal. (Shop installed the old seal backwards .

5. Install of new heat riser tubes.

6. Reinstall of the sump plate/screen and gaskets (7-9ft lb.) Index finger, middle finger and thumb at center of ratchet until snug...works like a charm every time.

7. Drop in of oil (Valvoline 20/50 ZR1)

8. Install of new Bosch wires.

9. Re-placement of all engine bay wiring. (thank god this bus hasn't got hacked wiring from previous owner

[72Hardtop]

Unable to up photos...too large. I'll use my other camera. More e-mail photo friendly.

Will likely fire the engine up today once I put on the exhaust and double check everything prior to crank.

[72Hardtop]

Tried unsuccessfully to fire the engine up. Passenger side carb (40 IDF) flooded. Appears that the carb had a hung float. Upon closer inspection (removal) I was unable to conclude any other issue with it. All passages were clear. The float height was set initially at 10.45mm. I switched the height to 11mm. I then removed the plugs and found that the shop had installed (Bosch W8RAC plugs ???) they were also gaped at .032 I've never run these in an ACVW. Will switch to NGK B5ES. Plug wires (Bosch) are new as is the rotor and cap. Running a Pertronix.

According to the shop they did not remove/tamper with the distributor. I recall on several visits seeing the distributor still installed.

As it stands now...I'll need to get new plugs (NGK B5ES) and then make another attempt at starting. I tried several times after resolving the carb issue at starting the bus and she cranks and would attempt to start. I'm heavily leaning at the plugs being fuel fouled too many times (as well as the wrong type). I've confirmed with a mirror that the carbs are not dripping. But given that they're Webers and have no chokes flooding them is relatively easy if cranked too many times.

Been keeping an eye out for fuel in the oil. So far no signs of fuel in the oil. Using Valvoline ZR1 20-50.

[Amskeptic]

Tried unsuccessfully to fire the engine up.
given that they're Webers and have no chokes, flooding them is relatively easy if cranked too many times.

I don't get this. Without chokes, the only flooding is going to be your right foot.

Use this bullet-proof method to getting any carbureted engine started.

Cold engine, four accelerator pump squirts.
Crank engine and slowly move accelerator to floor and leave it there for the duration of your fifteen second cranking interval. You have just gone from rich to lean. Somewhere on the continuum will be a happy enough mixture to give you signs of life.
Requires clean plugs correctly gapped . . .