Itinerant Air-Cooled

Something I've asserted with an air of perfect confidence but haven't actually researched, is that Squarebacks, Fastbacks, and Notchbacks are mechanically identical.

Is it true? Furthermore, are they absolutely identical from the back of the doors forward? Of course I'm talking within a model year here.

yes.

No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?

What I recall is everything is the same up front. In the back the SB has different Tbars to handle the extra weight. Of course, the differences between years is the big thing. Early cars had front drum brakes, that hard to fill gas tank filler in the front trunk and swing rear axles,

whc03grady wrote:No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?

Why yes, it is a 'yes and yes' just yes, yes of course. Other than post-door body trim pieces and trunk lids, the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.

As Bleyseng noted, the Squarebacks had a different torsion bar setting, actually set lower than the Notch/Fastbacks. Just like the counter-intuitive Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin

Amskeptic wrote:the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.

The pans aren't entirely identical -- the panels that support the forward edge of the rear seat bottom are different between Square and Fast/Notch pans. Square has hinges for the seat bottom to tilt forward, Fast/Notch has a pin on either side that fits a recess on the seat bottom. I think the metal stamping is actually different, not just "they welded hinges to these and pins to those" depending on whether the pan had a 31x or 36x VIN stamped on the tunnel .. but it's been so long since I've looked at them side-by-side that I just don't remember.

T34 pans have some additional differences from Square or Fast/Notch, but those cars are a special case anyway...

Amskeptic wrote:

whc03grady wrote:No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?

Why yes, it is a 'yes and yes' just yes, yes of course. Other than post-door body trim pieces and trunk lids, the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.

Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin

So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?
Btw have I ever looked at the camber difference between my 75's rear wheels? Thanks for pointing that out..!.That the PSR lower shock mount is bent,known a long time is an interesting fact to consider in this mix.//ek

Boxcar wrote:

Amskeptic wrote:
Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin

So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?

The "buses that were routinely loaded near capacity" should receive a slightly lower chassis setting. This is to make sure our centers of gravity are consistent with best handling, traction, and safety settings. It's slight but worth noting. The lower vehicles also received a slightly thicker sway bar, presumably to offset the fact that they were already lower to begin with. On my tin-top, I have the thicker bars. I have never measured another set to see if other tin-top buses also have the thicker bars. Busdaddy on TheSamba has found a few inconsistencies on the hundreds of buses he's worked on, so there's that to consider as well.




Robbie21*

asiab3 wrote:

Boxcar wrote:

Amskeptic wrote:
Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin

So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?

The "harder working" buses should receive a slightly lower setting. This is to make sure our centers of gravity are consistent with best handling, traction, and safety settings. It's slight but worth noting. The lower vehicles also received a slightly thicker sway bar,

Let's tighten up the nomenclature.
"Set lighter" is a confusing and potentially prejudiced phrase.
"Harder working" is likewise confusing and erroneous.
Westys are set lower than the passenger buses to maintain the exact center of gravity engineered to work with the suspension's roll axes.

Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin

Amskeptic wrote: Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin

Besides that scan of Bentley posted above, here is the parts fiche for the rear axle assembly:








Use the numbers in the right-hand column to cross reference the model numbers:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/inf ... stype2.php

My brain is fried thinking about all the comparing; perhaps there is more to learn here but I need a drive.

Robbie

asiab3 wrote:

Amskeptic wrote: Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin

Besides that scan of Bentley posted above, here is the parts fiche for the rear axle assembly:
My brain is fried thinking about all the comparing; perhaps there is more to learn here but I need a drive.

Robbie

Your brain sure is fried . . .
You are using "roll bar" in place of "torsion bar", which the above references nicely.
Roll bars are "stabilizer bars" or "sway bars" found solely on the front suspension, and they are, as far as I know, all the same. So when you said that there were thicker "sway bars", I was wondering of there was documentation to that effect . . .
Colin

Oh my... I am so sorry for brain farting all over this beautiful thread!

In an effort to redeem myself, it might be worth noting that the tire pressures VW recommends are different for each Type 3 car...

I tried...
Robbie

asiab3 wrote:Oh my... I am so sorry for brain farting all over this beautiful thread!

In an effort to redeem myself, it might be worth noting that the tire pressures VW recommends are different for each Type 3 car...

I tried...
Robbie

.

Tire pressures are the cheep way out to "adjust" handling characteristics, ask any Corvair owner.
So . . . is it in the 18-22 range? My Squareback is 22 front 30 rear and I am always ready for a nice oversteer.
Colin