Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
- whc03grady
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Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Something I've asserted with an air of perfect confidence but haven't actually researched, is that Squarebacks, Fastbacks, and Notchbacks are mechanically identical.
Is it true? Furthermore, are they absolutely identical from the back of the doors forward? Of course I'm talking within a model year here.
Is it true? Furthermore, are they absolutely identical from the back of the doors forward? Of course I'm talking within a model year here.
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
- Bleyseng
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Seattle again
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
yes.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- whc03grady
- IAC Addict!
- Location: Livingston Montana
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?
Ludwig--1974 Westfalia, 2.0L (GD035193), Solex 34PDSIT-2/3 carburetors.
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
Gertie--1971 Squareback, 1600cc with Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection from a '72 (E brain).
Read about their adventures:
http://www.ludwigandgertie.blogspot.com
- Bleyseng
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
What I recall is everything is the same up front. In the back the SB has different Tbars to handle the extra weight. Of course, the differences between years is the big thing. Early cars had front drum brakes, that hard to fill gas tank filler in the front trunk and swing rear axles,
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Why yes, it is a 'yes and yes' just yes, yes of course. Other than post-door body trim pieces and trunk lids, the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.whc03grady wrote:No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?
As Bleyseng noted, the Squarebacks had a different torsion bar setting, actually set lower than the Notch/Fastbacks. Just like the counter-intuitive Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- tristessa
- Trusted Air-Cooled Maniac
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
The pans aren't entirely identical -- the panels that support the forward edge of the rear seat bottom are different between Square and Fast/Notch pans. Square has hinges for the seat bottom to tilt forward, Fast/Notch has a pin on either side that fits a recess on the seat bottom. I think the metal stamping is actually different, not just "they welded hinges to these and pins to those" depending on whether the pan had a 31x or 36x VIN stamped on the tunnel .. but it's been so long since I've looked at them side-by-side that I just don't remember.Amskeptic wrote:the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.
T34 pans have some additional differences from Square or Fast/Notch, but those cars are a special case anyway...
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?Amskeptic wrote:Why yes, it is a 'yes and yes' just yes, yes of course. Other than post-door body trim pieces and trunk lids, the floorpans/running gear was identical for all cars.whc03grady wrote:No differences in suspension? No nothin'? Also, is that a 'yes and yes' or just a 'yes'?
Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin
Btw have I ever looked at the camber difference between my 75's rear wheels? Thanks for pointing that out..!.That the PSR lower shock mount is bent,known a long time is an interesting fact to consider in this mix.//ek
1975 003 Auto Westy L90D
repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.
1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler
repair!!!!aug2015
Jan/16 Bumped mixture a few notches richer. finally developing HP.
1.8L/LJet/Pertron DVDA+PertronixCompufire 42/36Ham Heads/AA 93mm pistons/barrels.Porsc.Swiv.Adjusters/CromoSteel pushrds/ Web 9550Cam/55cc chmbr.,035 squish,8.6:1CR/German Supply VWCanadaReman Rods/Schadek 26mmPump/vdo dualOP8/10#low sender/Quart Deep Sump
Backdate Htr bxs,reflanged 914 4into1. Two and three eighths inch collector,magniflow*muffler
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
- Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
The "buses that were routinely loaded near capacity" should receive a slightly lower chassis setting. This is to make sure our centers of gravity are consistent with best handling, traction, and safety settings. It's slight but worth noting. The lower vehicles also received a slightly thicker sway bar, presumably to offset the fact that they were already lower to begin with. On my tin-top, I have the thicker bars. I have never measured another set to see if other tin-top buses also have the thicker bars. Busdaddy on TheSamba has found a few inconsistencies on the hundreds of buses he's worked on, so there's that to consider as well.Boxcar wrote:So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?Amskeptic wrote:
Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin
Robbie21*
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Let's tighten up the nomenclature.asiab3 wrote:The "harder working" buses should receive a slightly lower setting. This is to make sure our centers of gravity are consistent with best handling, traction, and safety settings. It's slight but worth noting. The lower vehicles also received a slightly thicker sway bar,Boxcar wrote:So..... a Westy T bars are set lighter than a Tintops?Amskeptic wrote:
Westfalia vs passenger buses torsion bar settings, if you were going to have a higher empty weight, Volkswagen pre-emptively dropped the center of gravity.
Colin
"Set lighter" is a confusing and potentially prejudiced phrase.
"Harder working" is likewise confusing and erroneous.
Westys are set lower than the passenger buses to maintain the exact center of gravity engineered to work with the suspension's roll axes.
Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- asiab3
- IAC Addict!
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Besides that scan of Bentley posted above, here is the parts fiche for the rear axle assembly:Amskeptic wrote: Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin
Use the numbers in the right-hand column to cross reference the model numbers:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/inf ... stype2.php
My brain is fried thinking about all the comparing; perhaps there is more to learn here but I need a drive.
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Your brain sure is fried . . .asiab3 wrote:Besides that scan of Bentley posted above, here is the parts fiche for the rear axle assembly:Amskeptic wrote: Robbie, do you have the documentation on these different roll bar diameters, part numbers, vehicle application?
Colin
My brain is fried thinking about all the comparing; perhaps there is more to learn here but I need a drive.
Robbie
You are using "roll bar" in place of "torsion bar", which the above references nicely.
Roll bars are "stabilizer bars" or "sway bars" found solely on the front suspension, and they are, as far as I know, all the same. So when you said that there were thicker "sway bars", I was wondering of there was documentation to that effect . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
- asiab3
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Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
Oh my... I am so sorry for brain farting all over this beautiful thread!
In an effort to redeem myself, it might be worth noting that the tire pressures VW recommends are different for each Type 3 car...
I tried...
Robbie
In an effort to redeem myself, it might be worth noting that the tire pressures VW recommends are different for each Type 3 car...
I tried...
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.
- Amskeptic
- IAC "Help Desk"
- Status: Offline
Re: Square, Notch, Fast Similarities
.asiab3 wrote:Oh my... I am so sorry for brain farting all over this beautiful thread!
In an effort to redeem myself, it might be worth noting that the tire pressures VW recommends are different for each Type 3 car...
I tried...
Robbie
Tire pressures are the cheep way out to "adjust" handling characteristics, ask any Corvair owner.
So . . . is it in the 18-22 range? My Squareback is 22 front 30 rear and I am always ready for a nice oversteer.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles