Build thread of my 1970 Ghia Vert

Beetle, Karmann Ghia, Thing.

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tommu
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:54 pm

I also need to install a new steering box in my wife's Ghia. How did you find a good replacement? I have a TRW repop which has too much play, and an odd tightening just between 11:00 and 12:00. I wonder now if I didn't properly center it when I installed it?

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Bleyseng
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:35 am

That's what I have too but it has to be better than one with over 200K on it.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:35 am

tommu wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:54 pm
I also need to install a new steering box in my wife's Ghia. How did you find a good replacement? I have a TRW repop which has too much play, and an odd tightening just between 11:00 and 12:00. I wonder now if I didn't properly center it when I installed it?

Many of the worm and peg steering boxes get damaged by shoddy adjustment practices where people refuse to realize that it is not the box causing the play in question.

You need to get rid of that tightening post haste. You should have a "mild resistance" across about 10* of rotation at dead center. If you have two adjustable tie rods, you can lengthen the right tie rod and shorten the left tie equally by let's say a quarter turn, and center the resistance point, steering wheel spoke position be damned.

Back off the adjustment screw from "odd tightening" to "mild resistance".
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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tommu
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm

I was underadjusting initially and now I think I am closer to just tight enough. How do I feel the resistance point? I can't feel it through the wheel with the wheels in the air. Do I need to disconnect the column and twiddle the shaft?

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Amskeptic
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:46 pm

tommu wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm
I was underadjusting initially and now I think I am closer to just tight enough. How do I feel the resistance point? I can't feel it through the wheel with the wheels in the air. Do I need to disconnect the column and twiddle the shaft?
We're suffering definition creep here.
I read that you had an odd tightening as you rotated the steering wheel. Here you say "just tight enough".
Define what you are talking about.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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tommu
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:46 pm
tommu wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm
I was underadjusting initially and now I think I am closer to just tight enough. How do I feel the resistance point? I can't feel it through the wheel with the wheels in the air. Do I need to disconnect the column and twiddle the shaft?
We're suffering definition creep here.
I read that you had an odd tightening as you rotated the steering wheel. Here you say "just tight enough".
Define what you are talking about.
Colin
I very bad description of the symptom from me. It is not tightening. It’s more like play, momentarily the steering looses it’s torque. This is turning left, between 11:30 and 12:00 on the clock - coming back to straight ahead. I have been thinking that I may not have centered the box correctly.

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Bleyseng
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:12 am

1791-3T.jpg
1791-3T.jpg (11.93 KiB) Viewed 8403 times
Here is a picture of the oil pump and filter set up I installed. Really nice setup as it tucks up out of the way.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:33 pm

tommu wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:42 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:46 pm
tommu wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm
I was underadjusting initially and now I think I am closer to just tight enough. How do I feel the resistance point? I can't feel it through the wheel with the wheels in the air. Do I need to disconnect the column and twiddle the shaft?
We're suffering definition creep here.
I read that you had an odd tightening as you rotated the steering wheel. Here you say "just tight enough".
Define what you are talking about.
Colin
I very bad description of the symptom from me. It is not tightening. It’s more like play, momentarily the steering looses it’s torque. This is turning left, between 11:30 and 12:00 on the clock - coming back to straight ahead. I have been thinking that I may not have centered the box correctly.

A) Is it something like a flange clamp not quite secure on the steering shaft, moving from one slip stop to the other?
Check if you think that might be it.

B) Chloe has a dent in the middle of the preload area where someone must have cranked down on the adjustment screw something horrid. So, I have a steering wheel that goes tight then loose at exact middle, then goes tight, then off to the other lock. It's like a little double hump deal. You of course do not try to get rid of the middle dip. You have to pretend that all is wonderful and just make the double bump preload just so.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:14 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:33 pm
tommu wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:42 pm
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:46 pm
tommu wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm
I was underadjusting initially and now I think I am closer to just tight enough. How do I feel the resistance point? I can't feel it through the wheel with the wheels in the air. Do I need to disconnect the column and twiddle the shaft?
We're suffering definition creep here.
I read that you had an odd tightening as you rotated the steering wheel. Here you say "just tight enough".
Define what you are talking about.
Colin
I very bad description of the symptom from me. It is not tightening. It’s more like play, momentarily the steering looses it’s torque. This is turning left, between 11:30 and 12:00 on the clock - coming back to straight ahead. I have been thinking that I may not have centered the box correctly.

A) Is it something like a flange clamp not quite secure on the steering shaft, moving from one slip stop to the other?
Check if you think that might be it.

B) Chloe has a dent in the middle of the preload area where someone must have cranked down on the adjustment screw something horrid. So, I have a steering wheel that goes tight then loose at exact middle, then goes tight, then off to the other lock. It's like a little double hump deal. You of course do not try to get rid of the middle dip. You have to pretend that all is wonderful and just make the double bump preload just so.
Colin
Thats what is going on with my Ghia, loose then tight when you turn the wheel. There is a good 10 degrees of "play" on either side of centered which bugs the heck out of me driving on the freeway. New steering box is to go in next week along with clutch cable, parking brake cables and rebuilt petal assembly. Also when the gas tank is out I'll finally weld the tab back on that hold the innerwheel house shield that is loose.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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tommu
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Here’s how things look with the tank out.

It appears to me that the column and steering gear shaft are both at an angle Is that ok or should they be dead straight when they connect?

Image

Should the coupler be bent like this?

Image

Could this be the center mark for a TRW box? It is a little off center right now.

Image

Everything feels tight and well located.

Am I highjacking this thread? Should I create my own thread for this.

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Bleyseng
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:30 pm

Its fine post away....I don't recall the shaft being off center. There is a looonnng thread in the Samba about a 70 ghia that's original and has tons of pics inside the tank area.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Bleyseng
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Location: Seattle again
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:55 am

here so you can decide
1441567.jpg
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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tommu
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Location: Sunny Burbank
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:03 pm

Is it an optical illusion - or do they both seem slightly bent? Yours, albeit, far less?

I'll take mine out and roll it on a flat surface. If I don't it'll bug me every time I drive the car.

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Bleyseng
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by Bleyseng » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:55 am

I think that they are slightly off center. No, that is not my car but a guy in Scotland with a 1970 US Ghia Convertible that's all original that he is going thru preserving/refreshing. He does drive it around a lot in the summer. His thread is a good resource for how things are supposed to be from the factory vs some hack a mechanic did back in the day. (I have had to fix a ton of those hacks on mine)
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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tommu
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Location: Sunny Burbank
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Re: Time to refresh the engine and tranny

Post by tommu » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:16 pm

Reading a lot of posts on the Samba and it seems that a lot of late style collapsable columns were fitted off center. I spent a while mulling mine over and it didn't seem bent enough for me to take it out. My steering wheel and wheels are perfectly aligned, but I think my steering box is not. I opted not to take the pitman arm off myself as I have no good or confident way of making sure my wheels are pointing straight ahead before I put it back on.

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