thing steering box

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mentalQtip
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thing steering box

Post by mentalQtip » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:46 pm

Gotta '74 thing trying to tighten up the steering which is pretty loose and hopefully also help the pronounced shimmy in the front. Thats bad enough I couldn't imagine trying to drive it anywhere.
The bearings are tight. Everything is tight except the steering shaft going into the steering box and the steering arm
Can this be adjusted from the bottom and where does one get the proper tools for this or how does one decide that a new box is in order?

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bajaman72
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Re: thing steering box

Post by bajaman72 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:48 am

A buddy of mine recently picked up a new steering box from Car Craft for 74.95. He was happy with the price. They seem to be coming down. I changed mine last year (99 from WW) then while I was down there noticed the blown dampner, boots on my tie rods and ball joints were non existant... ended up changing everything. I aligned myself with a tapemeasure. Not perfect but works.
1968 Karmann Ghia - Driver
1969 Transporter - Project
1959 Karmann Ghia - Full Race Car

RussellK
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Re: thing steering box

Post by RussellK » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:23 am

I have about 1" of play in the steering wheel on my Beetle. I read the Bentley and looked at my box and it looks like you need a special tool to do the adjustment. So do I buy the tool or do I buy a new box. Decisions decisions.

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Amskeptic
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Re: thing steering box

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:39 pm

RussellK wrote:I have about 1" of play in the steering wheel on my Beetle. I read the Bentley and looked at my box and it looks like you need a special tool to do the adjustment. So do I buy the tool or do I buy a new box. Decisions decisions.
You just need access to the locknut 19mm? in a limited space, and then the means to move the screw, hold it, bring down the locknut.

I am going to tear into this "rebuilt" steering box on the TBRRD, it was $270.00 of grey paint and new seal. They have no current means to repair damaged worms and I have now run across three (!) rebuilt boxes all suffering from the same heart-dropping skip as you turn the wheel hard. There IS an actual slip that changes the position of the steering wheel in relation to the direction you're going. I do not like this. Tomorrow I am going to buy a used early bus steering box. If it works better than the one I have, I will use it and carefully attempt to take the current "rebuilt" skipping crap one apart to see where this damage is occurring. It is not a simple worn and peg steering box in the earlier buses. It has an intermediate thingamobob. I will also see about reducing some slop in the vertical direction by removing cover shims if there are any. I read about it once. Guaranteed for thirty seconds or thirty feet, whichever comes first.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: thing steering box

Post by bajaman72 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Amskeptic wrote:They have no current means to repair damaged worms and I have now run across three (!) rebuilt boxes all suffering from the same heart-dropping skip as you turn the wheel hard.
My "new" steering box does that. More noticably when I hit a bump on a gradual turn (on the freeway for instance) I feel the wheel move a good inch in the direction i'm turning in. I shoulda saved my old steering boxes :pale:
1968 Karmann Ghia - Driver
1969 Transporter - Project
1959 Karmann Ghia - Full Race Car

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Amskeptic
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Re: thing steering box

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:11 pm

Hippie wrote:Is there any possibility of fitting/modding a steering box from a more common car? Like a Ford?

Are you asking in regards to Type1 or Type2?

Non-power steering boxes made in America for front-engined cars had silly too many turns lock-to-lock. Actually, early hot-rod people were appropriating bus steering boxes because it was easy to slap the pitman arm on upside down or some crazy thing.

The worm and roller box on later buses is a very nice box when healthy. I read somewhere ..... that the late box can be made to work in the earlier worm-and-peg '68-72 buses with some drilling through the frame rails. I would as a matter of course try to stick in a sandwich plate spacer if it required the full number of mounting bolt holes to be redrilled.
Colin
(p.s. I did not pick up a used box because terms were not acceptable)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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skip
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Re: thing steering box

Post by skip » Wed May 25, 2022 5:34 pm

Hey Colin, I was going to call you regarding the steering box slipping. TheThing was knocking when turning,
so I had the ball joints and tie rods replaced. Then had it aligned. I replaced the rag joint/steering coupler
and verified the clamps were good-n-tight before. The alignment guy says the slipping is in the box.
Its sounds like what you described, can the slipping be adjusted out by screwing in screw?
Mike at Thingparts has a new box for $139 or a TRW box for $349 and Rockauto has it for $162.79.
Can the box be replaced from below or will the gas tank have to come out?
Please advise...
Complexity is the enemy of reliability.

76 Westfalia
74 Type 181

RinTinTin in Waldorf Astoria 1956

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skip
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Re: thing steering box

Post by skip » Sat May 28, 2022 8:31 am

In the orange Bentley, section 9 Front Axle explains there are 2 adjustments.
Fig 9-1 item 1 Roller shaft adjusting screw and item 11 Worm adjuster.
I haven't tried to adjust them yet, but I will.
Complexity is the enemy of reliability.

76 Westfalia
74 Type 181

RinTinTin in Waldorf Astoria 1956

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skip
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Re: thing steering box

Post by skip » Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:56 pm

Just a follow up. You have to remove the drivers side "D" shape panel to access the steering box.
It was hard to loosen the 17mm lock nut, soaked with PB Blaster for 2 days,
then had to use a manual impact driver and a breaker bar.
Then I turn the screw 1/2 turn in to adjust the roller shaft and locked it back down, I think it's ok,
no scary slipping, and no need to replace steering box yet.
Complexity is the enemy of reliability.

76 Westfalia
74 Type 181

RinTinTin in Waldorf Astoria 1956

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Amskeptic
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Re: thing steering box

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:45 pm

skip wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:56 pm
Just a follow up. You have to remove the drivers side "D" shape panel to access the steering box.
It was hard to loosen the 17mm lock nut, soaked with PB Blaster for 2 days,
then had to use a manual impact driver and a breaker bar.
Then I turn the screw 1/2 turn in to adjust the roller shaft and locked it back down, I think it's ok,
no scary slipping, and no need to replace steering box yet.
An impact driver? My goodness. Make sure steering is not sticky at center!
The above Chloe post should be be updated to say that the skip was in the flange-to-steering box input shaft clamp/bolt. The rebuilt box is ten years and 60,000 miles along, barely beginning to show signs of weeping.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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skip
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Re: thing steering box

Post by skip » Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:16 am

Finally a response...wound up turning the roller adjusting screw until it stopped, then locked it down.
It seems the slipping is only when turned all the way left. It kinda of centers after a turn...
really stiff, new Meyle ball joints and tie rods ( to save labor / time instead of just the ends ).
I was told steering would be stiff for about 100 miles, my odometer is broke, but speedo works.
I'm sure I aided to the steering stiffness by the larger tires 205/70R15 from the 14s and a smaller
13.5" steering wheel, but was ok before the new BJs. I still may have to order a steering box 113 415 061C.
Any advice ? BTW checked the coupler flange tightness because that's where thought it was slipping too.
I may have to live with this for a while.
Complexity is the enemy of reliability.

76 Westfalia
74 Type 181

RinTinTin in Waldorf Astoria 1956

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vwnos
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Re: thing steering box

Post by vwnos » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:45 pm

If you go down the route of ordering a new box let me know as I have the best one. It's made from TRW tooling but made better. You'll see some postings come out on the Steering Gearbox thread on TheSamba about this soon.

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Amskeptic
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Re: thing steering box

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:57 am

When your steering has a lot of new components, it is difficult to adjust the box correctly without disconnecting it from the drag link/tie rod. Then, stiff steering components take away the feel, the return to center, and it either will or will not break-in. I had a permanent loss of feeling in the Road Warrior. My 1978 Bus, the BobD, has ridiculously lovely steering. The 1970 bus, Chloe, comes in second, even with the old worm and peg steering, it is sure-footed, precise, and light when not loaded down. The 1977 Westy, NaranjaWesty, and I are still working things out. The 1973 Squareback comes in at the top. A razor sharp twitchy light steering.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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