Gibson Raided- who's next to be Gestapo'd by your friendly

[fred]

local FBI
is anybody getting nostalgic for GWB?

[fred]

irrational hostile perpetration of regulation against a Successful company, employing workers in a factory that actually operates in this country!!!!

[Velokid1]

A. Gibson brought this on themselves. They rolled the dice and lost.

B. Gibson has made the news for several years in a row now for it's employees rating it one of the worst employers in the US to work for.

I like Angus Young and all but jeesh. This has zilch to do with "big government."

[steve74baywin]

This
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2 ... -feds.html

Gibson—the legendary instrument makers behind the Les Paul, SG and 335 guitar models—had its Memphis and Nashville factories and offices raided by federal agents last Wednesday, the Wall Street Journal reports.

The article said federal officials seized pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. While federal officials have not commented on the investigation, Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz led reporters to believe the issue was an environmental one, stating “The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier.”

The article explains that the investigation’s pressing issue was probably the origin of the guitars’ wood:

The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn’t be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the “equivalent of Africa’s blood diamonds.” But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

But as the article explains, this isn’t only a hot issue for guitar manufacturers, but collectors as well:

If you are the lucky owner of a 1920s Martin guitar, it may well be made, in part, of Brazilian rosewood. Cross an international border with an instrument made of that now-restricted wood, and you better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent—not to mention face fines and prosecution.

John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says “there’s a lot of anxiety, and it’s well justified.” Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, “I don’t go out of the country with a wooden guitar.”

Wow, it doesn't seem like much.
Illegal wood.
It is time to declare independence.

[RussellK]

Wow, it doesn't seem like much.
Illegal wood.
It is time to declare independence.

I Know. Why just the other day I was thinking how great it would be if I could get a Panda steak somewhere. It doesn't seem like much. Illegal meat. Who are they to say what I can't consume.

[Velokid1]

I like the "aren't there bigger fish to fry?" argument. Gibson manufactures guitars under something like 15 brands. They are huge. They know better.

[Randy in Maine]

Jailtime is really under rated as a behavior changer. It can send a pretty effective message.

[Lanval]

Invoking Godwin's law in the post topic section is virtually daring the fabric of space-time to shred....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Mike

[static]

Importing protected woods knowingly and illegally? I hope this costs them plenty.

This is a huge corporation. Fuck 'em. They knew what they were doing.

(Meanwhile, I am polling my music industry sources to get the back story)

[ruckman101]

I think the gist of this one is whether unknowingly or not, an Indian law to protect jobs was broken. The wood destined to be fret boards weren't finished by Indian labor. Someone was illegally outsourcing work.

That's what I read between the lines.

Hmmm, maybe similar laws here would create some jobs.



neal

[steve74baywin]

It bothers me that some seem to be against this company just because they are big?
I don't see how anyone can say wood is illegal. Wood is provided by nature.
If someone takes wood that isn't their property, that is one thing. But if this company paid for the wood, if they paid who ever owned the wood what they wanted, then they are okay. They need to look at who acquired the wood by unjust means. If some other country wants to arrest their people for cutting down certain trees and selling the wood, then let them, that is for them to do, but don't go arresting and stealing from companies over here.

[RussellK]

You don't understand the concept of endangered? Protected? You don't understand how the law works? If you don't then ask someone to explain. But please refrain from making my brain hurt every time you issue a statement.

I'm sorry group. I can't play nice anymore so I should probably get my nap and a reset.

[steve74baywin]

You don't understand the concept of endangered? Protected? You don't understand how the law works? If you don't then ask someone to explain. But please refrain from making my brain hurt every time you issue a statement.

I'm sorry group. I can't play nice anymore so I should probably get my nap and a reset.

Yeah, it looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I understand that nature is powerful and life is always going on.
I understand that things keep growing, in spite of one species or another.
I understand that governments are instituted among men to protect our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I understand property rights for which this country was founded.
I understand we are a sovereign nation, and shouldn't be forced to abide by another countries laws.
I understand how fear is constantly being used to enact laws that violate our rights.
I understand that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Lanval]

You don't understand the concept of endangered? Protected? You don't understand how the law works? If you don't then ask someone to explain. But please refrain from making my brain hurt every time you issue a statement.

I'm sorry group. I can't play nice anymore so I should probably get my nap and a reset.

Yeah, it looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I understand that nature is powerful and life is always going on.
I understand that things keep growing, in spite of one species or another.
I understand that governments are instituted among men to protect our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I understand property rights for which this country was founded.
I understand we are a sovereign nation, and shouldn't be forced to abide by another countries laws.
I understand how fear is constantly being used to enact laws that violate our rights.
I understand that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Usually, knowingly buying stuff that is not legal is illegal. Did Gibson know the wood was not legal to buy? If so, then they're definitely busted. If not, they're still busted, because in general: ignorance of the law is not proof against prosecution.

If wood is a core component of your business, it is your job to ensure you're abiding by the rules. Plenty of other options, that aren't problematic. Gibson is probably going to take it in the pants on this, and rightly so. Know and follow the law of the people. As an aside Steve, asserting that it's OK to break the laws of other countries, just because it's not against the law here? Not very respectful of the rights of other people...

Mike

[steve74baywin]

Usually, knowingly buying stuff that is not legal is illegal.

I am questioning the legality of the law, so saying that doesn't make sense, unless you are saying that I can not discuss the correctness of any laws?

Steve, asserting that it's OK to break the laws of other countries, just because it's not against the law here? Not very respectful of the rights of other people...

Mike

Did this happen in their country?
I thought our countries laws applied to just that, our country, and I would think their countries laws would applied to their country.
Your comment is as if I was saying we can go to their country and break their laws.

Edited to add,
In other words the second comment of yours I quoted would apply if I was saying we can go to their country and ignore their laws and we just need to obey our own laws even while in their country. I could be mistaken, but I thought the Gibson thing happened on US soil.