Itinerant Air-Cooled

There was some pretty lively discussion on this board a couple of years back about the pro's/cons. Of the $86B or so, it will cost the tax payer about $14B (give or take). Was it worth it? Most accounts in the press say yes... what sez you?

In case you are wondering, yes I was for it, and yes I live in Detroit, and yes I work for a company that services the auto industry, so, yes, I'm (more than) a little biased... but I think things worked out pretty well...

Cheers,
Mike

Absolutely worth it. No question about it.

Sad they had to get there that way, but most of them did learn a lesson in the long run (I hope).

I was for it, I think it has worked passably well.
Colin

I'm a free market fundamentalist, so I would have said let the market rule and the chips fall where they may, but the market was far from free. From the Japanese corporate oligarchy / government alliance attacking the US market from their protected battlements in the moral equivalent of war, while our government savaged the same targets, to the Europeans propping up the Renault/Peugot/Fiat zombies, it's been decades since simple capitalist competition has been practiced.

With six or seven Euopean brands and six or seven Asian brands being sold here, there ought to be room for two or three US brands.

If GM had gone under, the collapse of the manufacturing base would have been catostrophic for the entire economy.

Now that the automakers are back on their feet and actually making money, we'll see how the UAW negotiations go in the fall. Semi-skilled workers here can make five or six times as much as a Chinese worker and compete effectively, but not ten or twenty times as much.

I'm not sure I see the value. How many US jobs are provided by the auto manufacturing industry these days?

(That's a question, actually. I'm asking someone to help me see the value. Because it feels to me like there is no true "American" auto maker anymore.)

Velokid1 wrote:I'm not sure I see the value. How many US jobs are provided by the auto manufacturing industry these days?

(That's a question, actually. I'm asking someone to help me see the value. Because it feels to me like there is no true "American" auto maker anymore.)

About two million.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081202/B ... o-jobs-101

The automotive industry directly employs more than 2 million workers in the United States. That is more than 43,000 workers, on average, in every state, and includes employees who engineer, build, distribute and sell both foreign and domestic cars and trucks. In all, those jobs generate $65 billion in income for those workers, or about $29,437 per job. While Michigan is the top state for automotive-related employment, with more than 240,000 workers, even Alaska employs nearly 2,500 workers in the auto industry.

Although with spin-off effects they say it "contributes" to 4.5 million jobs.

http://trade.gov/static/2011Parts.pdf

...automotive suppliers contribute to 4.5 million jobs nationwide and
provide more jobs than any other sector in seven states- Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky,
Missouri, Ohio, South Carolina and Tennessee. It was reported that automotive suppliers
account for more jobs and provide more economic well-being to more Americans than
any other manufacturing sector.

They figure the bailout saved a million jobs.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/11/17/g ... tudy-says/

And we got paid back, did we not?


neal

Mostly paid back. I think Chrysler is about $1.3 B in the red that we will not see soon.

I am not sure about GM though.

I also don't know about the status of the Canadain loans.

I was only for it if we imported some serious auto manufacturing people who knew the business--and gotten rid of the corporate American robber clowns.
After 100 years making cars, you'd think GM and Chrysler would be good at it by now.

Hippie wrote:I was only for it if we imported some serious auto manufacturing people who knew the business--and gotten rid of the corporate American robber clowns.
After 100 years making cars, you'd think GM and Chrysler would be good at it by now.

=D> =D>

Hippie wrote:After 100 years making cars, you'd think GM and Chrysler would be good at it by now.

You'd think that, but it just isn't true. The same is true in my business (traditional over-the-air broadcasting). Back when the public had basically three choices (ABC, NBC, CBS, GM, Ford, Chrysler), it was easy. Put out a product, good or bad, created or manufactured in a completely inefficient manner and people bought it. They had no better choice. The world has changed, the marketplace has changed and historically mis-managed industries are only now being forced to become "good at it". It's frightening to see first-hand when your family's livelihood depends on someone (or group of someones) trying to pull something out of their stinky spot something the public would actually want and to be able to sell it for a profit.

Some could guess that I was not for it.
First, it is not morally right, while some of us lost jobs and homes, they (who uses guns to take our money) choose to bail out a car company. I do not plan on buying anymore cars, my newest car is my 1978.
Two, if something isn't working correctly, fix the problem. Bailing out isn't a fix. The person who blows there money on crack and cigs isn't helped buy giving them more money.

Third, the country goes into debt constantly, we print money out of nothing, this causes the cost of things to go up. Actions like this is what is causing the problem, more of what causes problems isn't normally the solution for the problem.