Whither Libya?

[pj]

Wise words from nine years ago.

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/r ... te_sen.php

Too bad he doesn't talk to himself, maybe he'd remember saying this. Also makes you wonder where Cindy Sheehan is after her being used by every leftist group in the country against Mr. Bush, she's no where to be found. I'd be interested in what she has to say about the guy who ran simply as the anti-Bush and ended up in the foreign policy field as Bush's 3rd term.

1. Gitmo still open
2. indefinite hold for those in Gitmo
3. more troops in Afghanistan
4. still in Iraq and will be there for years (see Korea)
5. a third offensive against another Muslim country, called a humanitarian mission. I guess that depends on which end of the missile you find yourself on. As well I assume it's 1971 all over, cause we got to kill em' to save em' at least that's what R.M. Nixon thought.
6. the patriot act just re-upped

Pretty much all of the above is a Bush wet dream courtesy of Mr. Obama the "can't we all just get along guy".

[turk]

It's amazing how so little uproar is heard about such a war when it's Obama as commander-in-chief. I'm waiting to see the protests and vitriol. I don't see it. "Humanitarian" now, as opposed to "for oil". The "no-fly-zone" was in effect for ten years over Iraq and it didn't do much good against Saddaam. But now it will against Quadaffy. Okay. There's "no feet on the ground" in Libya. Okay. Everything looks good to me. Fine. It's all good. Arm those rebels Barry. Good move. Can't wait till 2012.

[Amskeptic]

It's amazing how so little uproar is heard about such a war when it's Obama as commander-in-chief. I'm waiting to see the protests and vitriol. I don't see it. "Humanitarian" now, as opposed to "for oil". The "no-fly-zone" was in effect for ten years over Iraq and it didn't do much good against Saddaam. But now it will against Quadaffy. Okay. There's "no feet on the ground" in Libya. Okay. Everything looks good to me. Fine. It's all good. Arm those rebels Barry. Good move. Can't wait till 2012.

Stop being such a reflexive and whiny partisan.

George Bush had a very respectful audience to his request to blow up the Iraqis-who-had-nothing-to-do-with-9/11. The Democrats and the American people stood behind him. Do you not fucking remember or are you blinded by your whine-baby pouting? I was screaming against it from the beginning all over theSamba because I had a different opinion of the Iraqi invasion.

"It's amazing how so little uproar is heard about such a war when it's Obama as commander-in-chief." Note to your higher brain functions, this is a different situation. It will most certainly be reviewed in the light of hindsight. Of course. And I defy your reptilian lizard spit reflex that Obama is getting a free ride around here, are you kidding?
Of course you are. Come on, tighten up.
Colin

[turk]

Here we go again. That's nice. I will buy you a beer for your manly civility. Then we can go out shooting something if you like. Look, genius, I know you were surprised when Obama went to war. If you were not I assume you've been lying, and now you're making excuses.

[Amskeptic]

Look, genius, I know you were surprised when Obama went to war. If you were not I assume you've been lying, and now you're making excuses.

If you READ for content, you would have read right here that I was in support of our engagement in Libya, I voted yes in this poll right here, I defended my reasoning with Hippiewannabee. You must not accuse me of lying when you have difficulty with nuance and creative thought.

WTF "excuses" and "lying" are you accusing me of? Answer the question. Your job here might depend on it. I have totally reached the end of my patience with people who diminish a fine spirited discussion with misinterpretation and personal insults. I am perfectly willing to watch this website shrink by all who follow you to a kinder gentler Volkswagen Enthusiast website of your own making. Try me.

[turk]

Here's a "nuance" for ya' :

If you were not I assume you've been lying, and now you're making excuses.

See the nuance? I have not "accused" you of anything. I'm assuming based on my observations and interaction here with you. Is that verboten now? If so, throw out any pretense of dialogue under "Free Speech". Not everyone thinks alike. Oh that it were so, then some kind of harmonious existence would be within reach. Yuck. Anyway, so what if you voted to intervene in Libya? You didn't vote to intervene in Iraq, with congressional approval, a 48 hour ultimatum, a ten-year no fly zone, U.N. resolutions ignored for years, etc.. Now you vote to intervene based on the U.N., Arab League, and you tell me, I don't wanna put words in your mouth. The differences are less than the similarities, but obviously hold more weight this time. My prediction is the U.S. will be in the lead, have boots on the ground, and not out for years. If you think otherwise - that it is a simple plan of some air-sorties, bombs, and no-fly zone, then the U.N takes over the heavy lifting - I am interested in hearing how that's going to work out. Why don't they make that work out in Darfur? Why didn't the no-fly zone "work" in Iraq for ten years, until the invasion of 2003? Who will finish the job? The U.N.? The Arab League? France and Britain? These are good questions. This brings back the question of "difference" between the totalitarian regimes of Saddaam and Mumar, and what it takes to change them. We know Saddaam wouldn't leave unless we finished the job. The interim between Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2 (I think it's called "Desert Shield" by the allies) resulted in failure to stop the slaughter of local rebels and civilians. Nuance didn't help.

[ruckman101]

Wise words from nine years ago.

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/r ... te_sen.php

Too bad he doesn't talk to himself, maybe he'd remember saying this. Also makes you wonder where Cindy Sheehan is after her being used by every leftist group in the country against Mr. Bush, she's no where to be found. I'd be interested in what she has to say about the guy who ran simply as the anti-Bush and ended up in the foreign policy field as Bush's 3rd term.

1. Gitmo still open
2. indefinite hold for those in Gitmo
3. more troops in Afghanistan
4. still in Iraq and will be there for years (see Korea)
5. a third offensive against another Muslim country, called a humanitarian mission. I guess that depends on which end of the missile you find yourself on. As well I assume it's 1971 all over, cause we got to kill em' to save em' at least that's what R.M. Nixon thought.
6. the patriot act just re-upped

Pretty much all of the above is a Bush wet dream courtesy of Mr. Obama the "can't we all just get along guy".

Republican light.

I make a comparison to Carter. Personally, I had pretty high hopes then, too. And I've never seen a guy age so fast in four years. I pegged it to personal frustration. Wanting to do the job he envisioned, but stymied at every step by the wall of the establishment institutional politics in place. Like trying to move a mountain.

I suspect the rhetoric and ideals Obama endorsed that gave us hope have smacked head-on into that same wall, and I still have hope the rhetoric isn't empty, but currently, yes, discouraged. Move to the right.


neal

[vdubyah73]

Obama is a high performance president. He seems to have gone from idealist to realist in about 2.25 years! bah dah bump

[steve74baywin]

Also makes you wonder where Cindy Sheehan is after her being used by every leftist group in the country against Mr. Bush, she's no where to be found.

Actually I see info from her.
Shortly after Obama was elected she knew something was up.
She is very against Obama.

From her soapbox
http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.co ... eehan.html
"The current president of the USA is no less skilled at being the Liar-in-Chief than the last one—after all, to be fair, that is the job description of the CEO of the Empire."

After paying attention to politics since 2001, she like many us sees this country for what it is.

[ruckman101]

Christian warriors working to fulfill biblical prophecies of beast, armageddon and end days? No good can come of that.


neal

[steve74baywin]

Christian warriors working to fulfill biblical prophecies of beast, armageddon and end days? No good can come of that.


neal

What did I miss? Where is that from?

[ruckman101]

Just a perspective of what it is our country is all about.


neal

[steve74baywin]

Ah, okay, Didn't know if it was from Cindy's blog. I went back and looked again to make sure I didn't miss something.
Similar to how from my side I saw the Tea Party start and get ruined as different than the media portrayed, I started to see Cindy Sheehan back during the Downing Street memo days. It didn't appear that she had backing from the left, she was little, she was searching for answers. She went unnoticed for the most part. I also heard many of her speeches in the beginning, and I saw the media do a great job of twisting her message, especially the right side of the media.
Now as election time got closer, she perhaps was used, but she also was around alot of people wise to the criminal cartel, and once Obama continued with the cartels agenda I saw her getting wiser, and wiser, and wiser.
I think I got on her mailing list when I bought copies of her book. Periodic emails where sent and I saw her pissed when Obama kept up the building of the empire.
Pretty much you could say she is another example of what happens with many of us, after many things just not making sense, you finally realize the agenda can't be what you thought, then you realize the agenda, and it all makes sense.

[glasseye]

Why didn't the no-fly zone "work" in Iraq for ten years, until the invasion of 2003?

Uh, it did work.

[turk]

Not that I am aware of. Please tell how it "Uh, it did work". On the other hand, now Iraq is free of a dictator.