Pelosi's Botox injections finally took their toll

[ruckman101]

Cheney has a little motor in him.


neal

And neal has way too much alcohol in himself

Nope, just started my work shift.


neal

[Robert Berglund]

Ritter.....I didnt ask you how you would expect the government to react I asked you a simple question.
Just answer the question as I proposed it to you .....If your wife and children were in danger ...........
Answer just the question as I asked it.
Thank you

[Robert Berglund]

Cheney has a little motor in him.


neal

And neal has way too much alcohol in himself

Nope, just started my work shift.


neal

No problem neal theres way plenty of time left after your done working

[Robert Berglund]

Do you really give a shootin shit what the USA does to anyone whos bent on killing citizens.

Yes I do give a shootin shit. For there to be law, we must all be equal in front of it. Further, our actions have stimulated more terrorism than our inactions.

Lets say I know of a scum bag low life who is intent on harming your family...mollesting your daughter and abusing your wife and the only way I could tell when they were to going to do this was to soak their heads in water....would you really care how I got the information outa them if it would save the lives of your wife and child.

Somehow, I knew you'd bring this up. There is a difference between how I might handle the situation and how I'd expect the government to handle the situation. You bet I'd act violently and decisively if my wife or daughter's lives were put in jeopardy and the asshat was in front of me. However, I would expect the government to protect said asshat from my actions and I would not expect the government to torture any information out of said asshat. Government should be in the business of enforcing law and keeping order, not breaking law and causing disorder. See the difference?

You say the Government should be in the business of enforcing law and keeping order, not breaking law and causing disorder.
Does your quote stand true for all the illegals invading our Country without proper documentation or just select laws you see fit to obey.
I too think the Government should enforce the laws and keep order.

[Ritter]

Ritter.....I didnt ask you how you would expect the government to react I asked you a simple question.
Just answer the question as I proposed it to you .....If your wife and children were in danger ...........
Answer just the question as I asked it.
Thank you

Robert, it's nice that you care enough for me and my family to torture that guy. There's not much I can do to stop you, but I think it would be the wrong way to go about it. Might be better to just turn him over to the authorities since he hasn't actually done anything yet.

You say the Government should be in the business of enforcing law and keeping order, not breaking law and causing disorder.
Does your quote stand true for all the illegals invading our Country without proper documentation or just select laws you see fit to obey.
I too think the Government should enforce the laws and keep order.

I thought we were discussing the merits of torture and botox, not immigration. Where is this invasion you speak of?

[glasseye]

Water boarding extracted information concerning the "bad guys" plan to flly a fully loaded airplane into an LA building.
Plan was thwarted because of water boarding.

Are we supposed to accept this statement without question? Let's see a little attribution here, Mr. Berglund. In other words, prove that it's the truth, not something you read on the Internets or heard Dick Cheney say on Fox News.

[ruckman101]

Torturing is against the law. Our government already enforces what it likes, ignoring other laws, or just cutting the purse strings to the agencies that enforce the laws. Toothless tigers. But a locked down mind only sees what it wants to see, simplicity, black or white no shades of gray.


neal

[vdubyah73]

Torturing is against the law. Our government already enforces what it likes, ignoring other laws, or just cutting the purse strings to the agencies that enforce the laws. Toothless tigers. But a locked down mind only sees what it wants to see, simplicity, black or white no shades of gray.


neal

Should the feds enforce the federal marijuana laws in Cali?

[vdubyah73]

Obama’s DNI reminds Obama that “enhanced interrogation” worked
posted at 8:44 am on April 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Barack Obama’s top man in the intelligence community sent the President a memo defending the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, which the White House edited before releasing to the press de-emphasizing that defense. Dennis Blair, the Director of National Intelligence, pointed out that most of what we know about al-Qaeda came from using those techniques on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, countering leaks last week from the Obama administration that claimed the methods produced no data:

President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

Admiral Blair sent his memo on the same day the administration publicly released secret Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of interrogation methods that the Obama White House has deemed to be illegal torture. Among other things, the Bush administration memos revealed that two captured Qaeda operatives were subjected to a form of near-drowning known as waterboarding a total of 266 times.

The New York Times, which got a copy of the memo, also notices some odd redactions from the version released by the White House:

Admiral Blair’s assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

“I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past,” he wrote, “but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time, and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations within the orders they were given.”

In other words, the Obama administration covered up the fact that even their own DNI acknowledges that the interrogations produced actionable and critical information. When Dick Cheney demanded the release of the rest of the memos relating that information, he wasn’t just going on a fishing expedition. Cheney filed a request to declassify those memos in March, and the CIA has yet to decide on his request, but we can no longer doubt that records exist showing the success of those interrogations.

Obama has occasionally suggested a truth-and-reconciliation approach to probing the use of torture by the Bush administration, but this establishes that Obama isn’t terribly interested in “truth”. Withholding the truth that waterboarding produced information that saved hundreds of American lives, perhaps thousands, shows that Obama values public relations more than he does the truth. He wants to argue that none of this was necessary to secure the nation against terrorist attacks. In order to make that argument, he redacted Blair’s memo, including his defense of his predecessors, whom Blair acknowledges had to face some tough decisions to uncover plots against America.

Maybe Obama could learn a lesson from Blair in that regard.

We need to have an honest debate on interrogation techniques and securing America against attack from radical, committed terrorists. Conservatives should stop pretending that waterboarding isn’t a form of torture that the US has opposed for decades when used abroad, especially against our own citizens. But everyone else should stop pretending that it doesn’t work, and that we would have been safer without its use. The real question — the one Obama wanted to avoid in his cover-up of Blair’s memo — is how many American lives is it worth to say we don’t waterboard? Ten? A hundred? Three thousand? Fifty thousand, the intended result of 9/11 and presumably the Second Wave waterboarding stopped?

[Ritter]

Is a society (or leadership) that engages in torture worth saving?

The second, no third?, fourth? (I forget, there were so many) reason given for invading Iraq was to depose of an evil tyrant who tortured people. What's the fucking difference?

[ruckman101]

Violence is a tool of the weak.


neal

[Robert Berglund]

Torturing is against the law. Our government already enforces what it likes, ignoring other laws, or just cutting the purse strings to the agencies that enforce the laws. Toothless tigers. But a locked down mind only sees what it wants to see, simplicity, black or white no shades of gray.


neal

Torturing is against the law...I never said it wasent now did I neal.

Waterboarding is not torture and every Navy Seal or Special Force or Green Beret or Ranger is waterboarded during training.
I didnt read that on the Internet or on FOX News or have Chenny whisper it in my ear.

I know it to be a fact

[Robert Berglund]

Water boarding extracted information concerning the "bad guys" plan to flly a fully loaded airplane into an LA building.
Plan was thwarted because of water boarding.

Are we supposed to accept this statement without question? Let's see a little attribution here, Mr. Berglund. In other words, prove that it's the truth, not something you read on the Internets or heard Dick Cheney say on Fox News.

My dear man..where have you been, time to take your head outa the engine compartment and come up for air.
Pick up a New York Times or The Post or at least some kind of news paper.

[ruckman101]

Waterboarding is still considered torture by the majority of people, countries and cultures. To claim it isn't because of legal manipulations, smoke and mirrors to rationalize it and declare it "legal" just bolsters my argument that just because something is legal doesn't necessarily mean it is right. And the jury on the legality of waterboarding is still out.

And again, torture, like violence, is a tool of the week.

And no, I don't think the feds should enforce federal laws that contradict state laws legalizing medicinal marijuana. I think that the use of drugs is a health issue, not a criminal one. In my book, all drugs should be legalized.


neal

[glasseye]

My dear man..where have you been, time to take your head outa the engine compartment and come up for air.
Pick up a New York Times or The Post or at least some kind of news paper.

1) I read the NYT daily. I see no mention of torture saving Los Angeles from airborne terrorism. Please direct me.

2) I drive an Asstro. I have no need of my head inside the engine compartment.