Itinerant Air-Cooled

hippiewannabe wrote: Anyway, you should all take a deep breath, and step away from the Hollywood-Democrat-media misery machine. Look at the broader vertical scope of world history, and the horizontal scope of the world today. This is as good as it gets. We have the luxury of debating the details in a nice warm shelter, with full bellies. For 99.9% of human existence, it's been a struggle just to survive.

Well gosh, you act like the messages we're receiving through the media support the idea that Peak Oil is in fact going to be a crisis. We all know that's not the case. Those of us who want to learn about the possible consequences of Peak Oil have to dig to find it.

Right now, it isn't discussed in the mainstream, and so the message doesn't even reach more than perhaps 10% of the American populace, a fraction of which actually pay attention to the message. You seem to be saying that this populace (who don't see Peak Oil as a problem or even a remote threat) won't be absolutely up-in-arms when the government/market artificially imposes price/tax increases in anticipation of a rocky future. I've noticed that people don't stop clutching their dollars until the blade actually comes into contact with their necks. Until that point, they will explain away the blade as a figment of the Liberal Imagination.

We may see a tax imposed that will stave off the consequences of Peak Oil, but most certainly that won't happen at any point before the mainstream media report/discuss what the true dangers and threat of Peak Oil might look like. We have to get there first, with open and honest dialog. Painting a rosy picture of what some economists think Peak Oil may end up looking like isn't any more helpful than painting the dreary, hopeless picture that many other experts would predict.

hippiewannabe wrote:This is as good as it gets. We have the luxury of debating the details in a nice warm shelter, with full bellies. For 99.9% of human existence, it's been a struggle just to survive.

I agree. These are the best of times in the ways of comforts (maybe not in the meaning of life or life fulfillment, but that's another topic). My point, however, is that I don't think it's sustainable. Aside from sunshine, we live in a closed system. It took millions of years of sunshine and decomposition and pressure to form the oil we've pumped out of the ground in 100 years. It's been a hell of a nice 100 years! But what happens when the oil's not so easy to pump, if it costs more than we can pay? Then we may very well find ourselves with a regression to the "struggle just to survive" lifestyle of our ancestors.

Anyway, I'm sure neither of us will change the other's views, but I appreciate the dialog!

Come on people, lighten up. Heh heh heh.

hambone wrote:Come on people, lighten up. Heh heh heh.

Shine on you crazy diamond.....

No worries. My soul is light, my spirit ethereal. Now if I could just get through this pile of work on my desk! Happy Friday!

hambone wrote:Come on people, lighten up. Heh heh heh.

Hey, now... let's not forget that Bill is the kettle, not you. :)

If industry had its way, it would rape until there was nothing left.

I believe this whole heartedly. As I do love to quote and explain things by using easy examples (As I call it the crayon and marker approach), does anyone remember the cartoon The Lorax, by Dr. Suess? In case you don't:

"A young boy goes to meet a ruined industrialist in a treeless wasteland and hear his tale of what happened to him. His tragic story is about how he began a thriving business with a useless fashion product derived from the trees of a forest. As his business booms, the forest and its inhabitants suffer as he wantonly clearcuts without regard to the warnings of a wise old creature called the Lorax about the dire consequences of his greed."

Made in 1972. Very fitting still.

Kafer64 wrote: does anyone remember the cartoon The Lorax, by Dr. Suess?

It was read to me as a child. Now I read it to my three year old. Great book.

hippiewannabe wrote:
Anyway, you should all take a deep breath, and step away from the Hollywood-Democrat-media misery machine.
This is as good as it gets.

I do so exceedingly and excruciatingly Beg Your Pardon :diabloanifire:


. . . . but I do NOT think I am merely a dupe of the Hollywood Democrat Media Misery Machine. I get my information from a variety of sources and have a nose for strident hysteria mongering which I avoid.

This cannot be as good as it gets. Not when I see the planet under such a strain and not while we suffer the belligerent complacency of us overfed monkeys, this cannot be as good as it gets while people die of starvation how the fuck can this be as good as it gets if you look around you? No thanks. I'll flog myself with liberal guilt a while longer, it helps me keep my eyes open. Ya know, ya hippiewannabe, pay attention and I think you might learn some more hippiefilosofy around here.
Rule One: just because you have it good, does not mean you don't have to look around at the rest of the world and devote some part of your empathy to their plight. Complacent smug self-satisfaction may be as good as it gets for some, but I see a better good in a smaller footprint arrived at by choice. Arrived at by conscious free will.
Rule Two: there is joy in serving others.
Colin

Rock on Colin!

Amskeptic wrote:

hippiewannabe wrote:
Anyway, you should all take a deep breath, and step away from the Hollywood-Democrat-media misery machine.
This is as good as it gets.

I do so exceedingly and excruciatingly Beg Your Pardon :diabloanifire:


. . . . but I do NOT think I am merely a dupe of the Hollywood Democrat Media Misery Machine. I get my information from a variety of sources and have a nose for strident hysteria mongering which I avoid.

This cannot be as good as it gets. Not when I see the planet under such a strain and not while we suffer the belligerent complacency of us overfed monkeys, this cannot be as good as it gets while people die of starvation how the fuck can this be as good as it gets if you look around you? No thanks. I'll flog myself with liberal guilt a while longer, it helps me keep my eyes open. Ya know, ya hippiewannabe, pay attention and I think you might learn some more hippiefilosofy around here.
Rule One: just because you have it good, does not mean you don't have to look around at the rest of the world and devote some part of your empathy to their plight. Complacent smug self-satisfaction may be as good as it gets for some, but I see a better good in a smaller footprint arrived at by choice. Arrived at by conscious free will.
Rule Two: there is joy in serving others.
Colin

Give'em hell Colin!

-John

LiveonJG wrote: Give'em hell Colin!

-John

Careful now, that's what the puppeteers told Dubya to do and he sure delivered. Next thing you know, IAC will be invading The Samba without Volkswagen, Inc.'s permission.

Velokid1 wrote:Next thing you know, IAC will be invading The Samba without Volkswagen, Inc.'s permission.

I can see it now... A dark lonely night, a deserted ally, both camps snapping their fingers in unison, giving each other the look. The tension so thick you could cut it with a knife. The last thing I remember is everyone started dancing.

-John

Amskeptic wrote:..This cannot be as good as it gets....snarl

Perhaps if you read the whole paragraph in context, you might better understand my meaning.

hippiewannabe wrote: Look at the broader vertical scope of world history, and the horizontal scope of the world today. This is as good as it gets. We have the luxury of debating the details in a nice warm shelter, with full bellies. For 99.9% of human existence, it's been a struggle just to survive.

Let me tell you about a specific moment that changed my world view: As I sat on the couch enjoying my pudgy, happy first baby, I happened to look up at the TV that was absent-mindedly left on. There staring back at me was an Ethiopian woman who's baby was dying in her arms. Her breasts had gone dry and she was unable to provide for it in even the most basic way. At that moment, and every moment since, I realized I have no real problems, and need to quit whining.

So when I say "this is as good as it gets", it's not smug satisfaction of "aren't we great", I mean that in the broad context of the world today, and especially historically, we are lucky SOB's. Life has always been hard, what we are experiencing is unusual. And if Peak Oil or whatever knocks a few points of GDP, we'll still be fine.

It's a separate but related discussion that the billion people lifted out of poverty in recent years did not achieve it though sacrifice, sympathy, equality and socialism. They owe it to free markets, globablization and competition. It's not a zero-sum game; hundreds of millions in Asia are thinking about a future for their children beyond tonight's meal, yet us 300 million Americans are still doing fine.

hippiewannabe wrote:It's not a zero-sum game; hundreds of millions in Asia are thinking about a future for their children beyond tonight's meal, yet us 300 million Americans are still doing fine.

Ah, but I believe that it IS a zero sum game. The environment is what pays the price now. And eventually, the plight of the planet will effect everyone.

Imagine contemplating a future where, for example, tornadoes in the southeastern US are a nightly event.

You hit the nail on the head hippie. Why be numb/gray if you can be thankful and fully aware of how fleeting it all is....