JEB!

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wcfvw69
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Re: JEB!

Post by wcfvw69 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:14 pm

No one despises our current oligarchy more than I. As I stated earlier, there are many of Bernie's views I share. However, there are many views of Bernie's I don't.. If you look at some of Bernie's youthful core supporters that are supporting him based on his promises of free this and free that, I bet John Kennedy is spinning in his grave. In 50 years, the democrats have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". Back in the 60's, kids were joining the peace corps to help and give back. Fast forward 50 years and the millennial crowd want/expect everything to be handed to them by the government.

This article below hits the high points of the things I disagree with.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ism-213667

It's a said state of affairs that most Americans are disenchanted with the current candidates running for our highest office. In 2016 we will vote for the least biggest turd in the punch bowl and it will be business as usual in Washington in 2017.

The system is massively broken and we all know it. The 1% has too much power and influence over government. What we don't have is any sustainable group or movement to affect change. Yes, Bernie tried to start a movement but he's too extreme for even the most disenchanted voter out there today.
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Amskeptic
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Re: JEB!

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:11 am

wcfvw69 wrote:No one despises our current oligarchy more than I. As I stated earlier, there are many of Bernie's views I share. However, there are many views of Bernie's I don't.. If you look at some of Bernie's youthful core supporters that are supporting him based on his promises of free this and free that, I bet John Kennedy is spinning in his grave. In 50 years, the democrats have gone from "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". Back in the 60's, kids were joining the peace corps to help and give back. Fast forward 50 years and the millennial crowd want/expect everything to be handed to them by the government.
Again, I find this long on generalities and way short on Reality. It is typical republicanesque fearfulness that claims that (blacks/immigrants, etc) the young want free stuff. Who spews that crap? Your average young American is saddled with more debt out of the box than I bet you ever fucking imagined. Try paying for college these days, Bill. How do you think that makes them feel, to put on their stupid paper pizza hat at $10.85 an hour to pay down that $20,000.00 private college loan for a degree that is damn close to worthless. Bought a house recently? How about a car? Young adult wages have no way kept up with expenses, yet you are slamming them for what reason? Why? Got a lazy kid at home?

What makes you think that the majority of kids/young adults are lazy loafers looking for a free ride? Is that what Bernie sounds like to you? A panderer? That old goat remembers when we did offer a free education to all citizens, that is what this country was founded on. Ask who sweats worse when a medical issue comes up? Ted Cruz or your average college student and his parents? Back in the 60's kids were joining the Peace Corps? Really? Is that when we had stay-at-home parents and jobs that could pay the bills? Because today's kids have to work at their lousy little minimum wage job stacking shelves at WalMart, if they can find work at all. John Kennedy is less likely to be spinning in his grave at today's kids than at today's adults, self-centered, greedy as hell, smug self-satisfied morons who know NOTHING of our nation's history, nothing of our founding principles, and certainly nothing of the wholesale hijack of the American Dream by a bunch of pigs who can't even pay lip service to the notion of American community. You know who is asking that their country do for them but they can't seem to do for their country? The out-sourcing, off-shore hoarding parasites like Halliburton and their endless lobbying for lower taxes still, but hey, go ahead and slam Bernie Sanders for, my God, trying to balance the horribly tipped scales a little more in favor of our nation's kids who have a whole lot more bleak outlook than you apparently can't see.

wcfvw69 wrote: Yes, Bernie tried to start a movement but he's too extreme for even the most disenchanted voter out there today.
Oh my, too extreme. What is that big bad Bernie gonna do? Didja forget we have a wallowing slop trough called Congress who just won't do their Constitutionally appointed tasks? What can any President do? Tell me what extreme executive action Bernie is going take. Please read up on Franklin Roosevelt before you reply.
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Re: JEB!

Post by jackstar » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Colin,
I tried college once and after a blistering 1.09 GPA my first term, I joined the Army and got the old G.I. Bill. After 3 years and growing up, I went to college for 48months on the Bill and 3 years of prior work. Then I went to 3 years of law school on my signature. After that I graduated with a degree and $129k debt. After 6 years of eating ice cube sandwiches, I paid that off and bought a house. Now I have 2 houses paid for, a law practice, a 79 Vert and a 79 Westy. Life aint bad.
Moral of the story (at least for me) is if you want something free, go work for it. Screw Sanders and his free college. Just my .02.

Jack

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Re: JEB!

Post by jackstar » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:25 pm

Oh, and "what makes you think that the majority of kids/young adults are lazy loafers looking for a free ride?" Don't think it applies in this forum, but come shadow me in the world of criminal defense clients. Never seen so many people on "disability" and unable to work. If/when the ballon goes up, a lot of people are going to flat out lay down and die because there will be no one to tell them not to.

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Re: JEB!

Post by asiab3 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:37 pm

jackstar wrote:Oh, and "what makes you think that the majority of kids/young adults are lazy loafers looking for a free ride?" Don't think it applies in this forum, but come shadow me in the world of criminal defense clients. Never seen so many people on "disability" and unable to work. If/when the ballon goes up, a lot of people are going to flat out lay down and die because there will be no one to tell them not to.

I think your comments on lazy young people being site-specific are spot on. Whoever is participating in this debate brings their own experience to the table. I'm young, and I work at my own level. I work with other young people who work their asses off, and I work with some that wouldn't finish a job if their life depended on it. If anyone judged the entire young population by either group, they would be dead wrong.
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Re: JEB!

Post by jackstar » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:51 pm

Many times people tend not to take the time to see the difference between those people (young or older) that bust their ass and the people that cant get off their ass. Air cooled people are a good example of the former and not the latter. I don't think you can own and nurture these cars, bugs, busses, Type 3's and trucks, etc where they don't make parts anymore and have much of a lazy gene. And to look at us as a group, you will be hard pressed to find a more eclectic and varied looking, acting, and working class of people but with a common bond. VW's.

I think I may have strayed from the original heading which is entitled JEB. Being in Florida and my wife a retired school teacher, I have been the sounding board on how badly he screwed up Florida education. Also he, like Rubio had a message or lack thereof, that simply failed to resonate with the voters. Too bad Kaisich is not making a better showing. He should have gotten a reality show deal. Do you think Trump has a schematic of his hair follicles? Try tracing down THAT short. Oh, and Cruz, I think he really is the Devil. Anyway, off to do some research.

Oh, a special shout out to Asiab3. He did me a serious solid on a pair of new mirrors. Check out his webpage. His resume of instruments is quite extensive. Thanks again.

Jack

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JLT
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Re: JEB!

Post by JLT » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:47 pm

jackstar wrote:
Moral of the story (at least for me) is if you want something free, go work for it. Screw Sanders and his free college. Just my .02.

Jack
With all respect, the fact that you used the GI Bill means that, in a sense, you did get free college. Since you mention in another post that your wife is at retirement age, I'm guessing that this was in the sixties and seventies, when college education was a lot cheaper, and the road to financial recompense was a lot smoother. I'm glad that things worked out well for you.

But young adults today face a different scene, where they are in for thousands of dollars in a college education that may not stand them in good stead in the market. (And I'm not talking liberal arts people, but engineers, law, and medicine, which used to be fairly good avenues to prosperity back in our day.) Now even if they bust their asses, they're not going to earn enough money to buy a house or start a family or support a consumer economy until they're in their forties, and probably putting two salaries into the household budget. This is not the economy we grew up in.

Bernie's "free college" platform is modeled on that of other countries who have made it work for them. He's already explained how he's going to pay for it by taxing the corporations who benefit from an educated workforce but want somebody else to pay for it (and if that's not a free ride, what is?).

I don't know if we're ready for "free college" but California had its greatest economic growth at a time when public education was essentially free, or close to it, all the way up to graduate school. When public subsidies declined, so did the educational system, and we've been paying the price for it ever since.
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Re: JEB!

Post by jackstar » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:25 pm

Not to beat a dead horse but since I still have the whip in my hand..... Back story. I went to Jr. college right out of high school and I sucked at it. That is when I went into the Army in 1977 to get the Bill and grow up. I used it to get a 4 year degree on the 7 year plan while living with the parents. After that I moved out and bartended with a BA in Criminal Justice. Then I went to law school (1994) and used my signature to go $129K in debt. Passed the bar in 1997 and started at the PD's office after which I went into private practice. My wife went from HS to college to teaching and after 31 years pulled the plug. I'll be 58 in May. From 1980 until I went to law school I was also in Army Special Forces in a Guard unit. Never did see one of those weekend a month, 2 weeks in the summer tours. I signed up and was gone for 18 months only to return for 2 months and be gone another year. Not bitching, just sayin'.

I guess the point I was trying to make is this: It seems that so many people have lost the intestinal fortitude to go out and make a life for themselves. It seems they expect it to be given to them b/c they exist not because they earned it. Also, if they do try and they are not successful to their standards the first time many just stop trying. Hence the die in place reference earlier. Thomas Edison failed hundreds of times and now look at the cool screen you are reading this from.

As for taxing the corporations and making them do what you want them to do, well good luck with that. Assuming Sanders was elected he would have 4 years of gridlock. Look at Obama and his 8 years of near gridlock. I would love to live in a Utopian society where everyone did the right thing just because it was the right thing. Unfortunately I have to live in this reality. And as for other nations having the greener grass on the other side, well go there and live and get the shit taxed out of you, not the corporations. Why do the really big British bands live here? Taxes in the UK. That pays for the socialized medicine and the public assistance.

Check out the Scandinavian nations. Very peaceful and loving. They also are not involved in any conflicts in the world like we are. Like it or not, we have stepped up to the plate and have taken on the mantle of the World's Policeman. If not us, then who? How about no one. If that were so, then the shit storm you have in the Middle East and elsewhere would be up to our eyes.

Sorry for the tangent. I think the issue was about Sanders and his policies and politics. Very noble. Glad someone is out there fighting the good fight. Now, when it is time to clean up the mess give me a call, I can still hump a ruck.

Nice chatting with you. Stay strong and don't ever give up.

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Re: JEB!

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:19 pm

hippiewannabe wrote: My wife is convinced it's Democrats crossing over to deliberately sabotage the Republican nomination. The change in participation rates versus historical averages lends some credence to the theory. But I'm afraid the Republican party is imploding with no outside assistance.
Sorrry if I'm a bit late responding ... been doing a bit of a walk a' bout. ....

I don't really buy into the conspiracy theory that Democrats are specifically voting in primary elections to get Trump on the Republican ticket. What scares the heck out of me, is that if (yes, I can use IF for now) he wins the Repuplican nomination is that he has broad enough appeal to actually win the election. THAT SCARES me. My only solace is that we have three branches of government to keep him in check if he does win.

I am a candidate voter ....have voted for both sides. But I can tell you this is the first time I went to a primary election, and I voted for the Republican primary (in Mich. don't have to be registered for either party, however, can only vote for one party) wanted to vote for Any Body But Trump. So there you have it .... anecdotal evidence of a 2x Obama voter, voting for the Republican primary to keep Trump out. :geek:

I'm not a Hillary fan...in fact, I seriously thought of writing in a candidate, however, If it is between Hillary and Trump, I realized that if I put a vote in for someone other than the Democratic candidate that in a sense I will be voting for Trump, as I think the vote will be really close (really hope it isn't).

And can somone tell me why Trump can't figure out how to tie a tie? it's always hanging 6 inches below his belt line.....don't get it.
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