food for thought...race relations

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TrollFromDownBelow
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food for thought...race relations

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:24 pm

We dance around it on this site...but we never directly address it - label it as something else. Need to call it what it is. thought provoking blog...


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Bleyseng
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Bleyseng » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:54 pm

You all just have to get out more... I have friends all colors/hues/ethnicbackgrounds and variety is the spice of life. Yep, most American White people are pretty boring IMHO.
Geoff
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Amskeptic
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:48 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:We dance around it on this site...but we never directly address it - label it as something else. Need to call it what it is. thought provoking blog...


http://iambeggingmymothernottoreadthisb ... 7/race-ya/
Nice! Thought-provocation happens so rarely these days . . .
Colin =D>

(p.s. finally hit target weight-loss this morning, how many months late??)
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:56 am

Bleyseng wrote:You all just have to get out more... I have friends all colors/hues/ethnicbackgrounds and variety is the spice of life. Yep, most American White people are pretty boring IMHO.
Stop!
Nothing is so tedious as the smug self-satisfied "cosmopolitan" who not only comes up with the singularly most lazy prescription for racism (get out more?) but who brags up his diversity portfolio, then has the cheek to slam others for "boringness". Yep, boring is the person who artificially elevates himself. Variety might be the spice of life, but spice can also be an irritant. Today, I am grateful to see the same coffee maker over two days in a row . . . :geek:

I suffer not from racism per se, but fear. I see fear as a component of racism. I get out plenty, and find myself in various environments. I try to connect. When others see that effort, they sometimes respond positively. I am afraid of so much more than skin color that I can own my fear of skin color.

I think this discussion deserves a moment to consider the economic aspect of racism. I see a terrible corporate advantage at setting the peasants against each other with false scarcities. We are afraid of the Mexicans for stealing our jobs, so we hate them. We are afraid of the blacks "for stealing" so we can steal their lives in corporate run prisons that make money for the corporatist masters. Our racism is fear and the fear is being is being stoked.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:28 am

That "Fear" is base on misunderstanding and ignorance I feel. That's why white Americans should make the effort to have more varied friends. Today's political climate is fanning the flames of fear just political gain and maintaining the "Statue Quo". Look at all the laws limiting voting.
"When others see that effort, they sometimes respond positively. I am afraid of so much more than skin color that I can own my fear of skin color. " That's a positive step Colin that every American should attempt.
Geoff
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:58 pm

Normally refrain at doing "me too" posts at all costs, as Colin captured the essence of my thoughts. However, felt that Bleysing's collective "you" was really directed towards me as I was the original poster.

A little about me. My first wife was Asian, my parents had crosses burned in their yard by the KKK during the late 60's because of their outspokenness against segregation when they lived in the South. My best friend Tony, who is black, married my 2nd wife and I ( first time was practice. :) ) and also lives with.... no, wait .... is a part of my family. My daughter introduces him as Uncle Tony.

My wife spent most of her formative years in the South. Although she is not racist, she was exposed to an environment that definitely was. I would invite you to sit around my kitchen table to partake in many of the lively discussions that we have around race relations. That is what this country NEEDS. Especially in light of the many protests that are happening across the country RIGHT NOW around this very subject.

Point of my link was to encourage some DIALOGUE on this site. It speaks to many (including myself) who really can't walk a mile in someone else's shoes.... I've had glimpses of it with as much time as I've spent with Tony, but can only imagine what it is like 24/7.

We need more dialogue, and my desire/wish is that this thread will be a catalyst for such kind of dialogue.

Cheers,
Mike
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by hippiewannabe » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:12 pm

Bleyseng wrote:You all just have to get out more... I have friends all colors/hues/ethnicbackgrounds and variety is the spice of life. Yep, most American White people are pretty boring IMHO.
yeesh. Generalize, condescend and stereotype much?
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by hippiewannabe » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:24 pm

When I worked for IBM, those cheap bastards made us double up at company events, I roomed with the only black guy in our group, because he was an interesting and thoughtful person, and a friend. Oh yeah, with his short cropped hair, he took his shower at night, so I could sleep in and not fight over the shower in the morning.

I read that whole thing, Mike. I really am trying to not just go with my knee-jerk reaction, and understand other points of view. She said:
But for fuck’s sake, say something.
I've thought and thought, but what keeps coming back is;

1) obey the law
2) if (1) is not possible, don't resist arrest.

If either of those two rules had been followed, those unarmed young black men would be safe at home with their families. And honest, hard working business owners in Ferguson would still have their livelihoods .
When thousands of people believe a made-up story for a month, we call it fake news. When a billion people believe a made-up story for a thousand years, we call it a religion.

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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:09 pm

hippiewannabe wrote: I've thought and thought, but what keeps coming back is;

1) obey the law
2) if (1) is not possible, don't resist arrest.

If either of those two rules had been followed, those unarmed young black men would be safe at home with their families.
It truly goes deeper.

Clive Bundy is out there with his pals waving guns around and challenging authority but a 12 year-old playing in a park has less than three seconds to obey before being shot dead? What does that say to the people who have lost their loved ones to police shootings?

Levar Jones is trying to get gas at a Circle K in North Carolina, cop says, "show me identification", Levar Jones turns to get his wallet, gets shot five times.

Do you not see that "resisting arrest" is just an excuse in so many circumstances where a cop violates somebody's personal space? Do you know how many thousands of police reports state that a suspect "behaved in a threatening manner" when that suspect was just shielding his face from cop spittle? In Atlanta in the past year, we had a baby gets his face blown off with a stun grenade and the cops were acting under faulty "intelligence", so they were not charged for invading a person's home and causing great bodily harm to an innocent. In Atlanta again, a grandmother got shot by cops who thought there might be drugs, none were found.

Just imagine for yourself, waking up at 3:00AM to cops in your house throwing a flash grenade in your daughter's room. Get off your law and order wavelength for a minute. Your daughter is in a medically induced coma with a burnt face, and you and your family were totally innocent. Would you not question what is going on this country?

Do you have any idea hippiewannabee, what it is like to be in the presence of someone who hates you without rational reason? I have seen with my own eyes the free pass I am given in the South and in Texas and New Mexico because I am white. I obey because my dignity has not been trampled. If some cop has heckled me day after day, like Eric Garner, you bet your ass I would saying, "enough". And yes, I complain if anyone interferes with my breathing.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Bleyseng » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:59 pm

hippiewannabe wrote:When I worked for IBM, those cheap bastards made us double up at company events, I roomed with the only black guy in our group, because he was an interesting and thoughtful person, and a friend. Oh yeah, with his short cropped hair, he took his shower at night, so I could sleep in and not fight over the shower in the morning.

I read that whole thing, Mike. I really am trying to not just go with my knee-jerk reaction, and understand other points of view. She said:
But for fuck’s sake, say something.
I've thought and thought, but what keeps coming back is;

1) obey the law
2) if (1) is not possible, don't resist arrest.

If either of those two rules had been followed, those unarmed young black men would be safe at home with their families. And honest, hard working business owners in Ferguson would still have their livelihoods .

Now that is just plain bullshit that "White" America says. These people who get shot including a 12 year old playing with a toy, weren't disobeying laws. Police are back to the days of the '60's where police violence was the normal to protect the white status quo.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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JLT
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by JLT » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:11 pm

Amskeptic wrote: Do you have any idea hippiewannabee, what it is like to be in the presence of someone who hates you without rational reason? I have seen with my own eyes the free pass I am given in the South and in Texas and New Mexico because I am white. I obey because my dignity has not been trampled.
Colin
Leonard Pitt wrote a very good article on just that subject. It was called "White Privilege and Bill O'Reilly". In it, he called out O'Reilly's statement on Jon Stewart's show that we were in a post-racial America. I suggest you look it up.

When my friend Sunny, a Japanese-American (she was born in the internment camps), was driving from California to Louisiana on a business trip a few years ago, she stopped at a Welcome Center as she arrived in Texas. The greeters were serving orange juice to the travelers. But they made a point of not "noticing" her, and she had to ask twice for her cup. As she said later, "Gee, if you're not welcome at a Welcome Center, where are you welcome?"
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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by hippiewannabe » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:22 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
hippiewannabe wrote: I've thought and thought, but what keeps coming back is;

1) obey the law
2) if (1) is not possible, don't resist arrest.

If either of those two rules had been followed, those unarmed young black men would be safe at home with their families.
It truly goes deeper.

Clive Bundy is out there with his pals waving guns around and challenging authority but a 12 year-old playing in a park has less than three seconds to obey before being shot dead? What does that say to the people who have lost their loved ones to police shootings?

Levar Jones is trying to get gas at a Circle K in North Carolina, cop says, "show me identification", Levar Jones turns to get his wallet, gets shot five times.

Do you not see that "resisting arrest" is just an excuse in so many circumstances where a cop violates somebody's personal space? Do you know how many thousands of police reports state that a suspect "behaved in a threatening manner" when that suspect was just shielding his face from cop spittle? In Atlanta in the past year, we had a baby gets his face blown off with a stun grenade and the cops were acting under faulty "intelligence", so they were not charged for invading a person's home and causing great bodily harm to an innocent. In Atlanta again, a grandmother got shot by cops who thought there might be drugs, none were found.

Just imagine for yourself, waking up at 3:00AM to cops in your house throwing a flash grenade in your daughter's room. Get off your law and order wavelength for a minute. Your daughter is in a medically induced coma with a burnt face, and you and your family were totally innocent. Would you not question what is going on this country?

Do you have any idea hippiewannabee, what it is like to be in the presence of someone who hates you without rational reason? I have seen with my own eyes the free pass I am given in the South and in Texas and New Mexico because I am white. I obey because my dignity has not been trampled. If some cop has heckled me day after day, like Eric Garner, you bet your ass I would saying, "enough". And yes, I complain if anyone interferes with my breathing.
Colin
If you watch the entire video of the encounter, not just the scandalously edited version designed to incite, you will see the police being calm, non-threatening and patient. Meanwhile, Eric Garner, who is a giant, gets more and more agitated, swinging his arms and yelling. Finally the cops act to restrain him, and he struggles and fights, even while on the ground. Tragic, yes. Preventable by simply cooperating, unquestionably. Racism, no.
When thousands of people believe a made-up story for a month, we call it fake news. When a billion people believe a made-up story for a thousand years, we call it a religion.

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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:49 am

hippiewannabe wrote:Meanwhile, Eric Garner, who is a giant, gets more and more agitated, swinging his arms
A "giant". Like all of these scary black men.

Swinging his arms? OMG, what to do? Step back out of reach?
He died, you know. He is dead.
So is Michael Brown.
So is that 12 year-old.
So is Levar Jones.
(o is Traavon Martin)
All of these unarmed people, dead. You would think that the police could ascertain the difference.
Meanwhile, Clive Bundy and his militia of yahoos were unlocked and loaded.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 93,996 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by hippiewannabe » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:41 pm

Amskeptic wrote: He died, you know. He is dead.
So is Michael Brown.
So is that 12 year-old.
So is Levar Jones.
(o is Traavon Martin)
All of these unarmed people, dead. You would think that the police could ascertain the difference.
Anecdotes. Tragedies individually, but statistically they don't even register. You'd think by the media coverage (and the reaction by people under their spell) this was the biggest problem facing the black community. You know the entire racial grievance industry is searching the stats; there are a few hundred people killed by the police every year, and they are not able to find even 10% that involved excessive force on an unarmed subject.
Using the total number, armed and unarmed, 3.6 individuals out of every million blacks are killed by the police.
By comparison, the homicide rate is 300 individuals per million, with the perpetrators being almost exclusively a black male.
Heck, the rate of auto accident deaths is 100 per million. Accidental fall deaths are 88 per million.

More black male high school dropouts aged 20–35 are in custody than in paid employment;
70% of black babies are born to single mothers.
"Social pathology" -- delinquency, crime, drug abuse, illegitimacy, child neglect, permanent welfare dependency -- is disproportionately concentrated (for whites and blacks alike) in the segment of the population with IQs below 75; at least one-fourth of the black population (compared to one-twentieth of the white population) falls below that critical IQ point in the bell curve
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm

To paraphrase the philosopher Ice-T, black America's got 99 problems, and police violence ain’t one.
When thousands of people believe a made-up story for a month, we call it fake news. When a billion people believe a made-up story for a thousand years, we call it a religion.

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Re: food for thought...race relations

Post by wcfvw69 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:55 am

1970 Westfalia bus. Stock 1776 dual port type 1 engine. Restored German Solex 34-3. Restored 205Q distributor, restored to factory appearance engine.

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