President Obama on False Equivalence

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President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 27, 2014 6:37 pm

In Chicago at a fundraiser:
“You’ll hear if you watch the nightly news or you read the newspapers that, well, there’s gridlock, Congress is broken, approval ratings for Congress are terrible. And there’s a tendency to say, a plague on both your houses. But the truth of the matter is that the problem in Congress is very specific. We have a group of folks in the Republican Party who have taken over who are so ideologically rigid, who are so committed to an economic theory that says if folks at the top do very well then everybody else is somehow going to do well; who deny the science of climate change; who don’t think making investments in early childhood education makes sense; who have repeatedly blocked raising a minimum wage so if you work full-time in this country you’re not living in poverty; who scoff at the notion that we might have a problem with women not getting paid for doing the same work that men are doing.

They, so far, at least, have refused to budge on bipartisan legislation to fix our immigration system, despite the fact that every economist who’s looked at it says it’s going to improve our economy, cut our deficits, help spawn entrepreneurship, and alleviate great pain from millions of families all across the country.

So the problem…is not that the Democrats are overly ideological — because the truth of the matter is, is that the Democrats in Congress have consistently been willing to compromise and reach out to the other side. There are no radical proposals coming out from the left. When we talk about climate change, we talk about how do we incentivize through the market greater investment in clean energy. When we talk about immigration reform there’s no wild-eyed romanticism. We say we’re going to be tough on the borders, but let’s also make sure that the system works to allow families to stay together…

When we talk about taxes we don’t say we’re going to have rates in the 70 percent or 90 percent when it comes to income like existed here 50, 60 years ago. We say let’s just make sure that those of us who have been incredibly blessed by this country are giving back to kids so that they’re getting a good start in life, so that they get early childhood education…Health care — we didn’t suddenly impose some wild, crazy system. All we said was let’s make sure everybody has insurance. And this made the other side go nuts — the simple idea that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, nobody should go bankrupt because somebody in their family gets sick, working within a private system.

So when you hear a false equivalence that somehow, well, Congress is just broken, it’s not true. What’s broken right now is a Republican Party that repeatedly says no to proven, time-tested strategies to grow the economy, create more jobs, ensure fairness, open up opportunity to all people."
Your thoughts?
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Tue May 27, 2014 7:45 pm

I really wish he would have come out and said it... that "group of folks" = Tea Party. 'nuff said.
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Amskeptic » Tue May 27, 2014 9:02 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:I really wish he would have come out and said it... that "group of folks" = Tea Party. 'nuff said.
But what do you think about *what he did say*?
Was it intemperate?
Was it "about time"?
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Lanval » Tue May 27, 2014 9:43 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
TrollFromDownBelow wrote:I really wish he would have come out and said it... that "group of folks" = Tea Party. 'nuff said.
But what do you think about *what he did say*?
Was it intemperate?
Was it "about time"?
ColinWhoStillCan'tFitIn32"SummerNotSoShortsThusShockingCommunityStandardsOfDress
Should've said it earlier. Like right after he was elected. The people have a choice, and it's a difficult one; he had a chance to lead. Maybe he still can, but I don't see it. He's squandered too much potential and too many years.

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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by ruckman101 » Tue May 27, 2014 10:24 pm

He nailed it. Intemperate? A reflection of his frustration. About time? In my book, yes, but imagine the recoil, shrieking and howling, hair-pulling, gnashing of teeth and stamping and stomping of cloven hoofed feet should he have made this statement years ago at the first hint of the frustration.

It would be a start. But only a start. After all, aren't all the current proposals by Democrats just Republican policies that Republicans abandoned once Obama signed on? Like Obamacare.


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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by pj » Wed May 28, 2014 11:38 am

Colin, he acts like he is some bystander and shit happens around him. He sat in Congress, and I don't recall him being the great uniter, the Rodney King of Congress shouting from the rooftop: "can't we all just get along"? Hell no, that wasn't his gig. Can you state one thing he agreed with and helped to pass in Congress that originated with Mr. Bush? I certainly cannot think of one.

He mentions in his statement that the Republicans were for paying women less, yet when he brought it up, his White house is shown doing the very thing he is complaining about. He complains they want to starve school kids. This morning on the news, it is stated that the Feds pay six cents per meal and in some districts it costs ten cents to meet the standard. What good is that and who is that feeding?
Why don't we let local school boards figure out how to educate and feed kids while they are in school?

Finally, isn't the system set up with three equal branches of governance, so that neither side gets everything it wants? Isn't it set up so that the executive and the legislative branches are forced to negotiate? If they cannot get together and figure it out, that honestly in my opinion is a blessing.

Because I do believe whether the politicians meet in your state capitol or in Washington, every day they meet our liberties are at risk and every day they don't pass something we are better off.

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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Wed May 28, 2014 8:10 pm

pj wrote:
Because I do believe whether the politicians meet in your state capitol or in Washington, every day they meet our liberties are at risk and every day they don't pass something we are better off.
BTW - completely agree with this statement; the less the government is in session making laws that may infringe on my INDIVIDUAL freedom, I'm good with that. That (belief in individual freedom) is what makes our country unique (IMHO).

But, circling back to the original argument, if you look at the past, congressmen/women were able to reach across the isle and understood compromise had to be made to propel this country forward. When one stands sooo firm on principles one loses sight of the bigger picture (the picture being that we have an elected body that is supposed to represent all facets of U.S. society). One could also argue that when elected officials take this hard line, no compromise approach, that they also lack an understanding of how an elected, democratic society should work. By taking this hard line, take no prisoners approach as the Tea Partiers have, they have lost sight on both the greater good, and also the democratic mechanism that brought them into office.

Even John Boehner lashed out at the Tea Partiers at the last gov't shut down. When have you seen any party 'eat their own'? From what I've read/heard, Tea Partiers are losing their influence.....


Cheers,
Mike

P.S. - I posted this late last night, but edited a bit this morning.
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 29, 2014 8:54 am

pj wrote:Colin, he acts like he is some bystander and shit happens around him. He sat in Congress, and I don't recall him being the great uniter, the Rodney King of Congress shouting from the rooftop: "can't we all just get along"? Hell no, that wasn't his gig.
If you were appointed to your public office and the next day's news ran a story about how your opponent is saying "we will do everything we can to make him a one-term office holder", wouldn't that take the blush off?

If you were appointed to your public office, and your opposition spread misinformation like:
"pj is actually a muslim, he wasn't born here, we're going to see about impeaching him" . . .

If you were appointed to your public office and your annual address to the city council was marred with your opponent still dogging you by yelling, "You lie!"

If you were appointed to your public office, and someone drew a picture of you and your wife with bones in your nose and towels wrapped around your head and called her a "monkey", would it take the blush off your efforts to reach across the aisle?

If you were appointed to your public office, and your opponent procedurally stopped your initiatives more times in the past six years than the entire time your city existed, when would you stop trying?

If your opponent said you were destroying the city, had run amok, had become a despot, on and on, wouldn't you finally understand that your opposition is irrational and hateful?
pj wrote: He mentions in his statement that the Republicans were for paying women less, yet when he brought it up, his White house is shown doing the very thing he is complaining about.
Of course! It is codified! He has to ask Congress to change the law governing pay of Federal employees!
pj wrote: He complains they want to starve school kids. Why don't we let local school boards figure out how to educate and feed kids while they are in school?
He did not use those words, that is our hypermedia starving for a fight to boost ratings.
Michelle has done excellent work with her anti-obesity campaign, and there are ACTUAL results that childhood obesity is leveling off. Yes, schools complain about mandates, we always do. Car manufacturers always complain "we can't meet the mandates" but they figure out a way. Obesity has an immediate effect on ALL OF US through health care expenditures, so it is a NATIONAL issue to save our kids from becoming sick little butterballs of blubber.
pj wrote:Because I do believe whether the politicians meet in your state capitol or in Washington, every day they meet our liberties are at risk and every day they don't pass something we are better off.
. . . . like arsenic standards, watershed protections, fuel economy standards, mortgage holder protection or credit card fine print regulations, toy safety standards, electrical and building codes, civil engineering standards . . .
Because I do believe a knee-jerk resistance to government serves no one in this complex, challenging, competitive world, where our individual liberties are being destroyed by economic servitude to corporate masters.
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Bleyseng » Thu May 29, 2014 9:18 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
pj wrote:
Because I do believe whether the politicians meet in your state capitol or in Washington, every day they meet our liberties are at risk and every day they don't pass something we are better off.
BTW - completely agree with this statement; the less the government is in session making laws that may infringe on my INDIVIDUAL freedom, I'm good with that. That (belief in individual freedom) is what makes our country unique (IMHO).
I don't agree at all as sitting on your hands going na na na na means nothing is being done about some of the major issues of our time i.e.: a living minimum wage,closing the income inequity, labor reforms,gun control, insurance reform, climate change, crumbling roads/bridges etc.... We have a government that was elected and doing nothing is a crime IMHO....

Inaction is not freedom, it's just doing nothing.
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Thu May 29, 2014 9:33 am

Correct, that's why I emphasized the word INDIVIDUAL. :)
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Amskeptic » Fri May 30, 2014 8:20 am

Bleyseng wrote: Inaction is not freedom, it's just doing nothing.
=D>

And if anyone thinks I am being "partisan", I indict the entire United States Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike for being paralyzed with their unreal "political realities".
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Bleyseng » Sat May 31, 2014 4:48 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:Correct, that's why I emphasized the word INDIVIDUAL. :)
So what Individual freedoms are being taken away by Obama or todays Government? Guns? Drinking and driving? Free Speech?
The Patriot Act was a bed idea but passed during the Bush years. All this NSA stuff is a bunch of crap but we don't want another 911 do we?

Gun control would go along way to slow down the killings of innocents as it works in other countries just fine ( I have been living abroad so I do have some idea how this works). My stepson goes to UCSB and was going to go out last Friday night to that area where the shooting happened but he stayed home to study for a test thank god!
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:16 pm

Gun control in a country that's had guns from the beginning of it's birth won't work. It's been shown and proven that in states that have and allow citizens to carry firearms legally that violent crime rates are lower.

Haven said that I'm all for passing legislation that makes it illegal for anyone with a diagnosed mental health issue to NOT be allowed to own or posses a firearm of any kind.
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by glasseye » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:03 pm

72Hardtop wrote: It's been shown and proven that in states that have and allow citizens to carry firearms legally that violent crime rates are lower.
Where exactly has this been "shown and proven" ?

Consider and possibly even research the situation in Australia, where a few years ago they went from legal guns to no legal guns. Guess what happened to violent crime?
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Re: President Obama on False Equivalence

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:26 pm

We need links or cites, please.

I have a fascinating analysis of why all crime has dropped by 60% since 1994.

Look that up, by the way. Crime has dropped dramatically!

Now look at how many people have tried to own this statistic as their own.

Then I will share with you the actual actuarial statistically tight reason.
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