Obamacare ? Anyone?

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asiab3
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by asiab3 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:28 pm

72Hardtop wrote:Current numbers are that Obama care is unaffordable for 105 million Americans...yes that is 105 million.
Boy that's a big statistic to pull out of thin air. Source?

If you're citing one of the bogus "news" websites like the Weekly Standard, try again. They picked and chose quotes from the American Health Policy Institute study done in 2015 that said 105 million couldn't afford the silver level packages.

The ACA definition of "affordable" care is a plan's premiums costing less than 9.5% of one's annual salary. For example, I live ten thousand dollars below the poverty line for my city. A bronze (low) level package costs 3.7% of my annual income. A silver (mid-level) package costs 8.6% of my annual salary, (not counting deductibles.) So I understand it's easy to be impressed by online magazines spouting numbers, but we MUST look at the sources they cite, and we MUST be critical of their details.

There is a big difference to be had between the cost of silver and bronze plans, to be sure. But the 105 million number? The ACA lists the "affordability" as 9.5% without deductibles, so when the AHPI considers deductibles part of the payment, they're cheating readership by using the same term "affordable" with different definitions and features.
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:40 pm

asiab3 wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:Current numbers are that Obama care is unaffordable for 105 million Americans...yes that is 105 million.
Boy that's a big statistic to pull out of thin air. Source?

My source is from within our hospital wide Cerner system. But it is out on the net as well.

Go to reddit and there is a good thread with quite a few current members of the unaffordable healthcare act....thread titt!e is "Obamacare insurance is unaffordable for 105 million."
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by asiab3 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:53 pm

72Hardtop wrote: Go to reddit and there is a good thread with quite a few current members of the unaffordable healthcare act....thread titt!e is "Obamacare insurance is unaffordable for 105 million."
I read that thread looking for your numbers. I've edited my response above. The internet hive-mind known as Reddit missed the connection in the sourced study like you did. The AHPI SOURCE of the 105m figure uses the term "affordable" to mean two different things, and they do not differentiate when quotes are pulled from thin air and blindly spouted as fact on the internet.
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:02 pm

There are several sources with the same findings. As I said my source is reliable given I work in a hospital and the numbers are passed thru to staff via hospital system. Look at American health policy.org (Affordability of employer sponsored care and the ACA exchange health plans).
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:17 pm

asiab3 wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:Current numbers are that Obama care is unaffordable for 105 million Americans...yes that is 105 million.
Boy that's a big statistic to pull out of thin air. Source?

If you're citing one of the bogus "news" websites like the Weekly Standard, try again. They picked and chose quotes from the American Health Policy Institute study done in 2015 that said 105 million couldn't afford the silver level packages.

The ACA definition of "affordable" care is a plan's premiums costing less than 9.5% of one's annual salary. For example, I live ten thousand dollars below the poverty line for my city. A bronze (low) level package costs 3.7% of my annual income. A silver (mid-level) package costs 8.6% of my annual salary, (not counting deductibles.) So I understand it's easy to be impressed by online magazines spouting numbers, but we MUST look at the sources they cite, and we MUST be critical of their details.

There is a big difference to be had between the cost of silver and bronze plans, to be sure. But the 105 million number? The ACA lists the "affordability" as 9.5% without deductibles, so when the AHPI considers deductibles part of the payment, they're cheating readership by using the same term "affordable" with different definitions and features.

Its anything but cheating. One chooses one or the other or pay the penalty. Either choice won't bid well for quite a few and it will be anything but affordable. Again...the very few I've met that it worked for and worked well were or could already qualify for state med-ical coverage and pay nothing. But for a family with 2 kids and both parents working at a liveable wage...expect to pay and with no subsidy with a high deductab!e.
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71mm Stroke
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S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:17 am

72Hardtop wrote:But for a family with 2 kids and both parents working at a liveable wage...expect to pay and with no subsidy with a high deductab!e.
Please note that the ACA puts a floor under policies now. I was running my own business with 10 employees for a decade in the 1990s, and the premium increases were unrelenting AND Blue Cross/Blue Shield was niggling down the coverage in insidious ways.

People bitch now (and they do) without even comprehending that their coverage is more robust and cannot be yanked out from under them like it used to. My dad's ex wife was denied coverage for an emergency brain operation in 2011 because the ambulance took her over a county line. She was unable to tell them (unconsciousness does that) to take her to the local Nye County hospital instead of Clark County. It cost her $125,000.00 that her insurance company refused to pay. Out of network, they said. She had to declare bankruptcy. She is way too proud of a self-initiating person to take that lightly.
Don't tell me that it was better in the old days. And please let me open a can of Republican Whup Ass on your sorry hide, because I KNOW that you don't like moochers, and the ACA is all about No More Moochers.
Colin
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:23 am

72Hardtop wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:Then the fun starts...cleaning up his god forsaken mess he'll have left this country with.
This is spewed off by anyone who disagrees with an outgoing leader, president or otherwise.

I have friends who are alive due to this "mess." There comes a time where fighting an ideology costs more than the ideology itself. And if protecting the citizens of a nation from financial hardship due to coorperate greed is a mess, I'll volunteer to mop it up.

Robbie

It is against the law to turn one away for medical treatment (has been for years)
And WHO pays? We taxpayers do! Every emergency room visit that is not covered. Especially gunshot wounds. So the ACA demands that you need to pay for your healthcare. That is as Republican a thought as any. Yet Republicans suddenly declare that people should be free to mooch free healthcare at the emergency room? Hello? Hello?
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:36 am

72Hardtop wrote:
Boxcar wrote:Hardtop-You for one are on a lucid thought or two!
Absolutely...I and many others have realized that this healthcare plan and presidents ways are going to cost this country dearly. Most won't realize it until he's long out of office.
If you review every republican claim for how Obama was going to wreck this country, and look at the current state of this country, the republican credibility index is in tatters. Tatters.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:08 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:Then the fun starts...cleaning up his god forsaken mess he'll have left this country with.
This is spewed off by anyone who disagrees with an outgoing leader, president or otherwise.

I have friends who are alive due to this "mess." There comes a time where fighting an ideology costs more than the ideology itself. And if protecting the citizens of a nation from financial hardship due to coorperate greed is a mess, I'll volunteer to mop it up.

Robbie

It is against the law to turn one away for medical treatment (has been for years)
And WHO pays? We taxpayers do! Every emergency room visit that is not covered. Especially gunshot wounds. So the ACA demands that you need to pay for your healthcare. That is as Republican a thought as any. Yet Republicans suddenly declare that people should be free to mooch free healthcare at the emergency room? Hello? Hello?
Yes...and the ACA won't change that one bit. They will continue to not pay because they are already not paying. One can't get blood out of a turnip.
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72Hardtop
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:10 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:
Boxcar wrote:Hardtop-You for one are on a lucid thought or two!
Absolutely...I and many others have realized that this healthcare plan and presidents ways are going to cost this country dearly. Most won't realize it until he's long out of office.
If you review every republican claim for how Obama was going to wreck this country, and look at the current state of this country, the republican credibility index is in tatters. Tatters.
It isn't just Republicans that hate Obama...most of the Dems hate him as well.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

72Hardtop
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:17 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:But for a family with 2 kids and both parents working at a liveable wage...expect to pay and with no subsidy with a high deductab!e.
Please note that the ACA puts a floor under policies now. I was running my own business with 10 employees for a decade in the 1990s, and the premium increases were unrelenting AND Blue Cross/Blue Shield was niggling down the coverage in insidious ways.

People bitch now (and they do) without even comprehending that their coverage is more robust and cannot be yanked out from under them like it used to. My dad's ex wife was denied coverage for an emergency brain operation in 2011 because the ambulance took her over a county line. She was unable to tell them (unconsciousness does that) to take her to the local Nye County hospital instead of Clark County. It cost her $125,000.00 that her insurance company refused to pay. Out of network, they said. She had to declare bankruptcy. She is way too proud of a self-initiating person to take that lightly.
Don't tell me that it was better in the old days. And please let me open a can of Republican Whup Ass on your sorry hide, because I KNOW that you don't like moochers, and the ACA is all about No More Moochers.
Colin
Not a republican nor a democrat here...of course the healthcare system flawed no one here is claiming otherwise. The whole government system is flawed. But the ACA is not the dream boat some make it out to be. Far from it. The ACA will not solve the moocher/s of healthcare those that abuse the system will continue to abuse it because you can't turn medical services away for anyone who can't afford to pay, the ACA doesn't change that.

http://americanhealthpolicy.org/content ... _Plans.pdf
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Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
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71mm Stroke
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S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
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72Hardtop
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:22 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote:
Boxcar wrote:Hardtop-You for one are on a lucid thought or two!
Absolutely...I and many others have realized that this healthcare plan and presidents ways are going to cost this country dearly. Most won't realize it until he's long out of office.
If you review every republican claim for how Obama was going to wreck this country, and look at the current state of this country, the republican credibility index is in tatters. Tatters.
Give it time most of the record number of 'Executive orders' he's endorsed their effects won't be seen until he's left office. Obama proves everyday that he is more a Marxist socialist than a democrat.
1972 Westy tintop
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Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
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71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:12 am

72Hardtop wrote: It isn't just Republicans that hate Obama...most of the Dems hate him as well.
Tuesday, March 31, 2015
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that
48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance.
50% disapprove .

Gallup
83% Democrats approve
46% Independents approve
14% Republicans approve

Please . . . .
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:59 am

Amskeptic wrote:
72Hardtop wrote: It isn't just Republicans that hate Obama...most of the Dems hate him as well.
Tuesday, March 31, 2015
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that
48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance.
50% disapprove .

Gallup
83% Democrats approve
46% Independents approve
14% Republicans approve

Please . . . .
Colin
All purposely hand picked.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
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96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
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Re: Obamacare ? Anyone?

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:23 pm

72Hardtop wrote:Obama proves everyday that he is more a Marxist socialist than a democrat.
Give us one example. Perhaps you could cite the actual writings of Karl Marx in your example.

Otherwise, you are spewing tired old discredited tropes. Socialism, by the way, is not a dirty word.
You ever been to the VA? Socialism.
Ever drank water out of a faucet? Socialism.
Turn on a light? Socialism.
Pulled on to an interstate? Socialism.
Are you gonna take social security and medicare? Ya socialist.
Noted that your most blood-thirsty conservative representative, Ted Cruz for example, is paid off the taxpayer dime and WE pay for his pension and healthcare!
Ever pledge allegiance to the flag? Socialist enterprise, this representative democracy.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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