How big corporations screw us and blame the little guy

[Amskeptic]

the problem is not that some people make too much money, it's that too many aren't able to contribute more than the bare minimum of human skills.

Today's corporate executives are not held to the standards you apply to the lowest rungs.
What the hell "skill" does your average CEO who last 27 months at the helm possibly have that he should get an obscene golden parachute after tanking the company's profits? The problem is most certainly that the money makers have a grotesquely inflated sense of self-importance, yet they do NOT materially contribute to the value of the country, hell, far from it, Jamie Dimon? Are you kidding? Bernie Madoff? Citibank's Michael Corbat, Goldman Sach's Lloyd Blankfein, Lehmen's Dick Fuld, Jr? Wells Fargo's John Stumpf? They each have contributing materially to making this, OUR country a poorer country, OUR citizens poorer through their selfish fraud. What is their skill? To make a bunch of investors happy? Do you think LONG TERM PERSPECTIVE is worth a damn? Cuz these self-centered captains of industry have no sense of the Nation's well-being, no perspective towards long term health of this country, as far as I am concerned they are too stupid to know that they are stupid, they are blind to the real promise of this country. I say they are making too much money. I say tax them to Nixon era's rates. To heck with the litmus test you apply against people who may not have been born smart but are DUE a life of dignity SO LONG AS the above people live high off the hog.

We have no right to insist people in other countries stay in poverty and leave the good jobs to us.

This is amazing. Startling. Scary. Unbelievable. And totally upside down. It says, "fuck you, American workers, we want to "help" (read: exploit -free of safety and health regulations) the world while we get rich and duck paying our homeland taxes.

We have NO RIGHT to leave the "good jobs" to us? Oh dear me. I am agog.

Anyone who is smart, disciplined enough to defer gratification and educate themselves, and willing to work, will have a nice life.

Good lord, I wish that was true. Yes, there are flaming comets of talent who will blaze their way to an incredible life. God bless them.
But I KNOW PEOPLE who are smart, disciplined enough to defer gratification and have educated themselves, and they not only are willing to, but have worked themselves to the bone, and yet they come up bankrupt because of a medical emergency that was "out of network"! I have seen tricky little credit card rules bury the hapless in debt. I have seen people live in houses that were friggen freezing! what . . . do you assume that they weren't working hard enough at their minimum wage jobs?
Are you *blind* to your hard-working fellow Americans, Don? I have seen so many people slam into the wall that it makes me sick to my stomach. Like I am now.
Colin

[hippiewannabe]

But I KNOW PEOPLE who are smart, disciplined enough to defer gratification and have educated themselves, and they not only are willing to, but have worked themselves to the bone, and yet they come up bankrupt because of a medical emergency that was "out of network"! I have seen tricky little credit card rules bury the hapless in debt. I have seen people live in houses that were friggen freezing! what . . . do you assume that they weren't working hard enough at their minimum wage jobs?
Are you *blind* to your hard-working fellow Americans, Don? I have seen so many people slam into the wall that it makes me sick to my stomach. Like I am now.
Colin

Did you miss the part about the universal health care and solid safety net? I have seen people close to me hit the wall, and they all have gotten up again and been fine. The worries about health care were the worst part. I have also seen people content to float in the swamp of risk-free squalor, sucked in to the quicksand of government assistance and low expectations. Life can not be made completely fair or riskless, and humans respond rationally to incentives. We can always do better, but I hear a whole lot of wanting to throw away the baby with the bathwater.

Credit card companies are indeed evil. I puke when I see the current ads that say "spend-spend-spend, you get more points!" The recent regulations for better disclosure were good, the real answer is to stay away.

[glasseye]

I have seen people close to me hit the wall, and they all have gotten up again and been fine. ... I have also seen people content to float in the swamp of risk-free squalor, sucked in to the quicksand of government assistance and low expectations.

And these we call "outliers". The plural of anecdote is not fact.

That many, even MOST, middle class Americans are suffering financially and emotionally from corporate and government malfeasance is fact. Unless, of course, the statistics are universally, conspiratorially lying.

I expect that Colin, by virtue of his repeated and extensive travels to every corner your country, sees a much broader spectrum of American middle class life that do you, hippiewannabe. I'll take his evaluation of conditions over yours any day.

[hippiewannabe]

I expect that Colin, by virtue of his repeated and extensive travels to every corner your country, sees a much broader spectrum of American middle class life that do you, hippiewannabe. I'll take his evaluation of conditions over yours any day.

Ah yes, contrary to your original statement, the plural of anecdote is indeed data.

I see the same data. The huge increase in people taken out of the workforce by bogus disability awards, the creation of unemployment through attempts to pay workers far more than the economic contribution of their labor, the tyranny and racism of low expectations and useless public education, the stifling of innovation and productivity through punitive taxes, etc., I draw different conclusions and have different ideas to solve them the problems.

[Amskeptic]

I have also seen people content to float in the swamp of risk-free squalor, sucked in to the quicksand of government assistance and low expectations. Life can not be made completely fair or riskless, and humans respond rationally to incentives.

THIS is the definition of the Corporate Plutocracy.
Look at how the rich have made their lives riskless, look at how our court system lets them plead not only nolo contendre, but REFUSE to acknowledge guilt . . . then they deduct their fines from their taxes. If they make lots of money they get a bonus to stay, if they screw up they get a bonus to leave. Low Expectations, Don!

Look at the moral squalor of agribusiness executives who enjoy their quicksand of government assistance while the SNAP program is cut. Hell, look at the risk-free squalor of our gerrymandered Congress who shut down the government while taking their free government healthcare and pay checks while your average federal worker was in a panic at how they were going to pay their mortgage. I (!) lost a call because of that stupid shutdown.

These rich bastards are content to float in the fetid swamp of self-congratulation while they have NO understanding of the daily reality of most Americans. I cannot believe, Don, that you choose to focus on the failings of the hopeless while you give a pass to the high-flying plutocrats.

You have never looked at your darling child who just doesn't have a whole lot going on upstairs, but sure is a beautiful if simple soul. What sort of life would your current world view give them?

Do you have any relatives who are slogging through the shoals of countless resume rejections? Do you *see* what it does to their incentive? Maybe you have a relative who bragged about their 8 million dollar income last year and they're on track to make it 9 million this year. What drives them? Is their incentive "better" or "more valuable" than that 29 year-old woman I met who is raising kids on her own and trying to make her work schedule work with her college class schedule? SHE is suffering the consequences of our plutocrats, and YOU hide in Reaganesque slamming of the "welfare queens", and I have to say, Don, it is an old stale argument that comes from people who are wrapped a little too tight around their assumptions.

Let's just say that a true and moral conservative would find more savings going after the arrogant malfeasance of privileged pricks than knocking the pilfered candy bar out of some little kid's hand.

Enjoy your smarts, Don. I sure do. Enjoy your successes, Don. Love your smart beautiful children helplessly.
But don't give short-shrift to those who love their children half to death, but they never seem to get home in time for dinner, and they never have enough energy to take more than a passing interest in their child's day. Do not underestimate the corrosion in our culture, the corrosion of unfeeling judgmentalism, the corrosion of relentless economic stress, the corrosion, let's say, of Detroit where the automaker executives made disastrous short-sighted decisions in the name of Next Quarter Profits, and left their workers holding the bag, and then tell me if their pink slips and drastically reduced income was because these workers were suddenly not worth their pay. Corrosiveness. It comes from an imbalance in the ph of fairness.

If the rich like to declare that life isn't fair, why can't the rich take a little more "unfairness" in their tax returns without crying like babies? Why is our banking sector right back at contentedly floating in the slop trough hogging it up while we skate to the next quicksand financial disaster?

Why are you judging the people at the bottom? You can't even see them from your door.
Colin

[Amskeptic]

huge increase in bogus disability awards,
creation of unemployment through attempts to pay workers far more than the economic contribution of their labor,
the tyranny and racism of low expectations
useless public education,
the stifling of innovation and productivity through punitive taxes,
I draw different conclusions and have different ideas to solve them the problems.

I see that.

Seeing as American workers are more productive than ever, yet I have not seen any "efforts to pay them more", I have to ask how you are drawing your conclusions.
Seeing as public education has been the cornerstone of our democracy, I quake to think of your alternative.
Seeing as I have yet to meet an innovator who ever said, "but I quit, because I felt, I felt, I felt PUNISHED to pay even these modest taxes" . . . .
Ah well,
Colin

[yondermtn]

Too bad almost every government appointee is pulled straight from the very corporations that are hated on. What do you expect to come of that?

[Amskeptic]

Too bad almost every government appointee is pulled straight from the very corporations that are hated on. What do you expect to come of that?

I expect quid pro quo revolving door destruction of democracy . . . and you?
Colin

[Lanval]

Here's an interesting list of facts (source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-0 ... d-poor-ame )

The one that really indicates a problem, to me at least, is #6,

Take it away, list guys:

#1 The lowest earning 23,303,064 Americans combined make 36 percent less than the highest earning 2,915 Americans do.

#2 40 percent of all American workers (39.6 percent to be precise) make less than $20,000 a year.

#3 According to the Pew Research Center, the top 7 percent of all U.S. households own 63 percent of all the wealth in the country.

#4 On average, households in the top 7 percent have 24 times as much wealth as households in the bottom 93 percent.

#5 According to numbers that were just released this week, 49.7 million Americans are living in poverty. That is a brand new all-time record high.

#6 In the United States today, the wealthiest one percent of all Americans have a greater net worth than the bottom 90 percent combined.

#7 Household incomes have actually been declining for five years in a row and total consumer credit has risen by a whopping 22 percent over the past three years.

#8 According to Forbes, the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined.

#9 The homeownership rate in the United States is at an 18 year low.

#10 The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have as much wealth as the bottom one-third of all Americans combined.

#11 18 percent of all food stamp dollars are spent at Wal-Mart.

#12 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

#13 It is hard to believe, but right now 1.2 million students that attend public schools in America are homeless. That number has risen by 72 percent since the start of the last recession.

#14 One recent study discovered that nearly half of all public students in the United States come from low income homes.

#15 In 1980, CEOs at S&P 500 companies made 42 times as much as their employees did on average. Today, CEOs at S&P 500 companies make 354 times as much as their employees do on average. In fact, there are many CEOs that make more than 1000 times what the average employees in their companies make.

#16 U.S. families that have a head of household that is under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.

#17 At this point, one out of every four American workers has a job that pays $10 an hour or less.

#18 Today, the United States actually has a higher percentage of workers doing low wage work than any other major industrialized nation does.

#19 Approximately one out of every five households in the United States is now on food stamps.

#20 The number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

#21 At this point, the poorest 50 percent of all Americans collectively own just 2.5 percent of all the wealth in the United States.

So which America do you live in?

[ruckman101]

Conservatives rail against the leeches sucking at the socialist Obamawhatever teat on welfare and social security and food stamps. So lazy, working 60 hours a week at three part-time minimum wage jobs and still being eligible for welfare social security and food stamps. Corporations are fine with citizen's tax dollars subsidizing their profits, all the while demonizing the victims of their greed. Maybe if the working class weren't considered just another natural resource to exploit by the "job providers" like oil, or timber, or gravel, welfare, social security and food stamps wouldn't be needed. Cake and eat it too.


neal

[Bleyseng]

These days I am in the 39% and ok with it as I am burnt out working in the 'merican system i.e. the "spinning hamster wheel". I am lucky in that I do have some job opportunities (Construction Project Manager) as Seattle is booming right now but I don't know if I can do it anymore (60 hr work week, little vacay, tons of responsibilities/pressures). I am recovering from foot surgery right now trying to get healthy to hit my stride in my 60's, so I don't know if I want to burn up the last of my health for what?
I am appalled at how much money flowed into Wash State to fight the GMO labeling! Polls last month showed it winning by 10 pits but 30 days on constant outright lying TV ads changed the outcome so it lost by 5 pts. Monsanto did a beat down on us to continue to shove its BS GMO food on us.
I have been helping out a old dear friend sell his local cranberries at the Farmers Markets and its amazing how people love local quality food products. Of course these are Grade A beautiful large sweet cranberries and compared to the large agricorp's puny berries you see in the stores there is no comparison. My point is that people want nice local food if they can get it compared to the Global GMO food that is being shoved down our throats by the agicorpor's. Yep, we take Food Stamps too and even give em away if people are low on cash just so people can enjoy em.

[glasseye]

I am appalled at how much money flowed into Wash State to fight the GMO labeling! Polls last month showed it winning by 10 pits but 30 days on constant outright lying TV ads changed the outcome so it lost by 5 pts. Monsanto did a beat down on us to continue to shove its BS GMO food on us.

They control the media. Simple as that. All it takes is money.

This is a very long read, but very compelling. Scarier than Breaking Bad.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19872 ... the-humans

[yondermtn]

Too bad almost every government appointee is pulled straight from the very corporations that are hated on. What do you expect to come of that?

I expect quid pro quo revolving door destruction of democracy . . . and you?
Colin

I agree, more of the same.

[Bleyseng]

I am appalled at how much money flowed into Wash State to fight the GMO labeling! Polls last month showed it winning by 10 pits but 30 days on constant outright lying TV ads changed the outcome so it lost by 5 pts. Monsanto did a beat down on us to continue to shove its BS GMO food on us.

They control the media. Simple as that. All it takes is money.

This is a very long read, but very compelling. Scarier than Breaking Bad.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19872 ... the-humans

To me it just shows how stupid the average voter is if you watch/believe TV ads.

yes Colin, the "good ole boy" network is totally in power from the Government to Corporations. CEO's move around company to company receiving huge salaries and bonuses while cutting/destroying the average Joe worker living standard. Back to my statement above:
"To me it just shows how stupid the average voter is if you watch/believe TV ads." Nothing will change until people think.

[Lanval]

This makes me want to quit. Two interesting quotes from the whole article:

"Membership in this elite group is likely to come from being involved in some aspect of the financial services or banking industry, real estate development involved with those industries, or government contracting."

and

"Recently, I spoke with a younger client who retired from a major investment bank in her early thirties, net worth around $8M. We can estimate that she had to earn somewhere around twice that, or $14M-$16M, in order to keep $8M after taxes and live well along the way, an impressive accomplishment by such an early age. Since I knew she held a critical view of investment banking, I asked if her colleagues talked about or understood how much damage was created in the broader economy from their activities. Her answer was that no one talks about it in public but almost all understood and were unbelievably cynical, hoping to exit the system when they became rich enough."

The article. Caution: You will be somewhat unhappier after reading this, though probably not surprised (if you've been paying attention).

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-inves ... ew-2013-11