The Whole System Failed Trayvon Martin

[RussellK]

So you dismiss all the info into TM's background on the basis of (1) photo title that wasn't titled by the poster originally? All the info posted with regards to TM shows his true character. It paints a picture as to who the person is. There is an old saying, " If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck.

Other than reminding me of Monty Python's witch trial, I don't see any value in the blog. Nothing about TM's life except the moments before his death should have any bearing on the case.

[RSorak 71Westy]

And in the moments before his death he choose to assault another man who had a gun. Bad choice.

[hippiewannabe]

Over the years on this itinerary, I have interacted with many people who were "suspicious" of my presence. I have yet to be shot, but I hasten to add that some people are amazingly hostile based only on what is going on their own minds. I am older than a teenager, so I seek to disarm them with commiseration and deference. I can see where Traavon did not have skills...

This is a key point. If, instead of deference, you showed hostility and aggression, to the point of breaking the nose of your out-of-line interlocutor, you may well have been shot. If said jerk truly felt afraid for his life from your intimidating stature and actions, he would have gone free. The first one to resort to physical attack is at fault, regardless of who was an asshole, who profiled who, etc.

All Trayvon had to do was tell Zimmerman "dude, take it easy, I'm on my way to a friend's house". Or, if he truly felt threatened, dial 911, rather than call a friend to complain about the "creepy ass cracker", and then confronting and punching him.

In the five months or so since Trayvon died, many hundreds of young black men have been killed, almost exclusively by other young black men. The relative outrage is staggering. The George Zimmermans of the world are an insignifcant threat to YBMs. The profiling Zimmerman was guilty of is a symptom of the problems of YBMs, not a root cause.

[RussellK]

And in the moments before his death he choose to assault another man who had a gun. Bad choice.

And apparently that is how the jury saw it. inarguably Zimmerman was within his right to carry and use his gun. In my opinion a gun carrying citizen ought to be required to exercise restraint and caution. With so many different stories floating about I'm not convinced Zimmerman did that. Emboldened with a gun Zimmerman appears to have made the choice that contributed to the events leading up to the Martin's death. The choice to pursue. Even if Zimmerman was subsequently attacked by Martin ultimately he placed himself there with a lethal weapon in his possession. His choice. Down a street he had no reason to follow Martin down. This where I see the grayness. But the jury decided based on the law not on my opinion. That's how it works in this country. I have no problem with guns for protection but do we really want gun laws that remove responsibility for the gun owners actions? This weekend an armed property owner shot and killed a stream floater after a group of them stopped to urinate on his posted property. There was a confrontation and the property owner feeling threatened reportedly shouted "I have the power. I have the power" during the melee. He has been charged with 2nd degree murder but I can see a stand your ground defense applying as the law applies today. It's getting crazy.

[dtrumbo]

All Trayvon had to do was tell Zimmerman "dude, take it easy, I'm on my way to a friend's house". Or, if he truly felt threatened, dial 911, rather than call a friend to complain about the "creepy ass cracker", and then confronting and punching him.

Do you honestly think calling 911 is a viable option for a YBM in this situation? Yes, we've come a long way, but we haven't come far enough... yet.

[Amskeptic]

All Trayvon had to do was tell Zimmerman "dude, take it easy, I'm on my way to a friend's house". Or, if he truly felt threatened, dial 911, rather than call a friend to complain about the "creepy ass cracker", and then confronting and punching him.

Do you honestly think calling 911 is a viable option for a YBM in this situation? Yes, we've come a long way, but we haven't come far enough... yet.

I understand why some members of the American Community do *not* think to call 911.

So, George Zimmerman was on the phone with a 911 operator, sucking at the law and order teat, conspiratorially sharing the establishment code words for "they are not like us".
"!@#% punks . . . "
"Yeah, hello? 911? There's a creepy-ass cracker following me."
"Please hold."
" . . . up to no good."

For all we really know, Trayvon might have done that, hippiewannabee, and George Zimmerman might have gone hostile, "you tellin ME to 'take it easy'? Get the hell out of our neighborhood !@#% punk!" which is definitely a provocation for someone who does live in that very neighborhood. We do not know. Just like 72hardtop cannot claim that Martin attacked Zimmerman. We do not know.
Colin

[hippiewannabe]

We do not know.

Exactly. In our system, guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and doubt was there in spades.

I didn't follow the trial, but happened to catch the testimony of the defense's forensic expert. He not only sowed plenty of doubt on the state's case, he showed how the evidence pretty much proved Zimmerman's version of the events.

[RussellK]

If we are to ever narrow the racial divide we have got to start trying to see through the eyes of others. In 1991 Washington University Professor Gerald Early, who is black, was held for looking in a jewelry store window while waiting to pick up his wife and kids. The jewelry store owner thought his store was being cased by a black man. Recently a good friend of mine, a black man, firmly entrenched in the middle class, spoke passionately of his mistrust of the police. In his experience the very essence of who he is had been challenged by the police. Something I found impossible to identify with. We know black kids working on their own sense of identity are regularly profiled in stores. There is a sign at the Walgreens that say's no hoodies. Whatever the cause of profiling, whatever way we try to justify it, can we deny it is hurtful? That when applied to an individual is fundamentally unfair to that person? This was in todays local paper, I thought it was well written and wanted to share

It’s dark. His heart is racing, and with each beat the fluid of life spurts out his heart and lungs like a squirt gun. His breathing draws heavy. He’s scared. No one really knows what the final moments of Trayvon Martin’s life were like, but according to most medical experts, Trayvon survived for a couple of minutes and probably was semiconscious. Even after his heart finally gave out, his brain retained roughly 16 seconds of oxygen, enough to keep it functional, enough for a moment of contemplation.

What we do know is Trayvon was unarmed, had committed no crime, and his race initiated the chain of events that led to his loss of life. The same was true for 13-year-old Darius Simmons of Milwaukee, an African-American youth. He was simply moving a garbage can in front of his home when his 75-year-old white neighbor confronted him with a shotgun and accused him of stealing from his home. The neighbor shot Darius in his chest while he had his hands raised; his mom was watching in horror. It was later determined that Darius was in school at the time of the theft. Darius Simmons was unarmed and had committed no crime.

The same was also true for 13-year-old Jarrell Tucker of Indianapolis. This African-American youth was walking down the street, confronted by a 56-year-old white man, punched and shot two times, once in the head and once in the leg. Detectives talked to the shooter but did not detain him. After talking to witnesses, police subsequently issued a warrant for the arrest of the shooter. Jarrell Tucker was unarmed and had committed no crime.

And let’s not forget 17-year-old Jordan Davis, an African-American youth of Jacksonville, Fla. A 45-year-old white man claimed he felt threatened by teenagers playing loud music. He fired eight or nine times into an SUV, killing the teen. Like the others, Jordan Davis was unarmed and had committed no crime.

We cannot ignore that the significant increase in drug-related violence and homicides in the urban communities has imbedded in the minds of both blacks and whites that young black men are criminal predators. This profile was the predominate factor in all these cases, including Trayvon Martin. Take into consideration that African-Americans are significantly more likely to be profiled, arrested and incarcerated than white suspects who commit similar offenses and have equal to longer criminal records. Include that African-Americans are approximately six times more likely to spend time in prison or jail than whites. Add in that African-Americans receive up to 60 percent longer federal prison sentences than whites who commit similar offenses, and 20 percent longer prison sentences than whites who commit the same offenses. And overlay those facts with a justice system in which African-American defendants are consistently overcharged by prosecutors in contrast to white defendants.

Thus it is reasonable to understand the anger and mistrust African-Americans have for the justice system. The stereotyping of young black men as criminal predators is not new. During reconstruction in 1915, “Birth of a Nation” led the way in the stereotyping of young black men as savages. In this film, the terrifying, savage African-American was tamed through lynching; today it’s with a gun. This criminal predator stereotyping continues and is commonly used as a backdrop to justify concealed weapons and “Stand Your Ground” laws.

As far back as the emancipation, and over the years, the image of the savage from the “Dark Continent” periodically is revitalized stealthily within social policy agendas. And racial violence against African-Americans throughout U.S. history was justified and encouraged. The message of the day to whites was, in order to protect our way of life we must put blacks in their place; and that is exactly what George Zimmerman insisted on doing to Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed and had committed no crime.

Adolphus M. Pruitt II is president

of the St. Louis City NAACP.

[72Hardtop]

If we are to ever narrow the racial divide we have got to start trying to see through the eyes of others. In 1991 Washington University Professor Gerald Early, who is black, was held for looking in a jewelry store window while waiting to pick up his wife and kids. The jewelry store owner thought his store was being cased by a black man. Recently a good friend of mine, a black man, firmly entrenched in the middle class, spoke passionately of his mistrust of the police. In his experience the very essence of who he is had been challenged by the police. Something I found impossible to identify with. We know black kids working on their own sense of identity are regularly profiled in stores. There is a sign at the Walgreens that say's no hoodies. Whatever the cause of profiling, whatever way we try to justify it, can we deny it is hurtful? That when applied to an individual is fundamentally unfair to that person? This was in todays local paper, I thought it was well written and wanted to share

It’s dark. His heart is racing, and with each beat the fluid of life spurts out his heart and lungs like a squirt gun. His breathing draws heavy. He’s scared. No one really knows what the final moments of Trayvon Martin’s life were like, but according to most medical experts, Trayvon survived for a couple of minutes and probably was semiconscious. Even after his heart finally gave out, his brain retained roughly 16 seconds of oxygen, enough to keep it functional, enough for a moment of contemplation.

What we do know is Trayvon was unarmed, had committed no crime, and his race initiated the chain of events that led to his loss of life. The same was true for 13-year-old Darius Simmons of Milwaukee, an African-American youth. He was simply moving a garbage can in front of his home when his 75-year-old white neighbor confronted him with a shotgun and accused him of stealing from his home. The neighbor shot Darius in his chest while he had his hands raised; his mom was watching in horror. It was later determined that Darius was in school at the time of the theft. Darius Simmons was unarmed and had committed no crime.

The same was also true for 13-year-old Jarrell Tucker of Indianapolis. This African-American youth was walking down the street, confronted by a 56-year-old white man, punched and shot two times, once in the head and once in the leg. Detectives talked to the shooter but did not detain him. After talking to witnesses, police subsequently issued a warrant for the arrest of the shooter. Jarrell Tucker was unarmed and had committed no crime.

And let’s not forget 17-year-old Jordan Davis, an African-American youth of Jacksonville, Fla. A 45-year-old white man claimed he felt threatened by teenagers playing loud music. He fired eight or nine times into an SUV, killing the teen. Like the others, Jordan Davis was unarmed and had committed no crime.

We cannot ignore that the significant increase in drug-related violence and homicides in the urban communities has imbedded in the minds of both blacks and whites that young black men are criminal predators. This profile was the predominate factor in all these cases, including Trayvon Martin. Take into consideration that African-Americans are significantly more likely to be profiled, arrested and incarcerated than white suspects who commit similar offenses and have equal to longer criminal records. Include that African-Americans are approximately six times more likely to spend time in prison or jail than whites. Add in that African-Americans receive up to 60 percent longer federal prison sentences than whites who commit similar offenses, and 20 percent longer prison sentences than whites who commit the same offenses. And overlay those facts with a justice system in which African-American defendants are consistently overcharged by prosecutors in contrast to white defendants.

Thus it is reasonable to understand the anger and mistrust African-Americans have for the justice system. The stereotyping of young black men as criminal predators is not new. During reconstruction in 1915, “Birth of a Nation” led the way in the stereotyping of young black men as savages. In this film, the terrifying, savage African-American was tamed through lynching; today it’s with a gun. This criminal predator stereotyping continues and is commonly used as a backdrop to justify concealed weapons and “Stand Your Ground” laws.

As far back as the emancipation, and over the years, the image of the savage from the “Dark Continent” periodically is revitalized stealthily within social policy agendas. And racial violence against African-Americans throughout U.S. history was justified and encouraged. The message of the day to whites was, in order to protect our way of life we must put blacks in their place; and that is exactly what George Zimmerman insisted on doing to Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed and had committed no crime.

Adolphus M. Pruitt II is president

of the St. Louis City NAACP.

These days with as many guns as there are out there. It's highly recommended that everyone assume that one is likely carrying a concealed weapon. We only knew TM wasn't carrying until well after the incident occurred. Look at it this way if your attacked and your licensed to carry a firearm how long do you wait before deciding to use the firearm? Remember...if you likely wait to long there stands a very good chance that you will be disarmed and have the firearm used against you. It's taught in the academy that you always keep distance between you and anyone your dealing with.

Split second decision...

For me it's easy. If attacked and I bear the firearm and the suspect still shows no sign backing off. Suspect is dead. Plain and simple.

[Amskeptic]

It's taught in the academy that you always keep distance between you and anyone your dealing with.

Right! Stay in your damn truck, George!

For me it's easy. If attacked and I bear the firearm and the suspect still shows no sign backing off. Suspect is dead. Plain and simple.

Would you inform him that you were armed?

I drive a Volkswagen bus with a 44 hp engine. It is what you call "unarmed". It makes me back off, it makes me defer to others, it makes me be polite, it makes me stay out of other peoples' way. And I like it just fine.
Colin

[72Hardtop]

As a citizen one isn't obligated to inform one he/she may be armed. As a police officer it's generally always obvious to one.

[RussellK]

That column mentioned three young men who were shot while minding their own business. None were armed. Yet the response was we should assume they are. An assumption based on what?. Their age? The color of their skin? And who recommends we assume people are armed. The NRA? Sure, they just love sowing seeds of fear. Good for business and all. I've worked in and near the hood for most of my years without fear relying on nothing more than my wit and charm. I live in the big bad city. I've been in situations and never have I thought a gun would be helpful. In fact a gun would have always made things worse. What the heck is everyone so afraid of. It's crazy.

But why wouldn't a citizen inform? For Pete's sake doesn't practicing prudence and avoiding killing someone make sense? I thought the whole point of wanting a gun was simply for protection, not to create a setup to justify shooting someone e.g. Death Wish 1 - 39

In every concealed carry / stand your ground discussion I've participated in is bravado and wannabe cop speak. Words like the perp, the suspect etc. Words that dehumanize another person. Let's not forget we are talking about human beings, who by the way, are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. This notion armed citizens ought to be able to shoot, without consequence, anyone they deem suspicious or scary is insane. Maybe it would make sense for those who wish to arm themselves and speak easily about killing to spend time with someone who has killed another person. Perhaps a little perspective before they do something that will unalterably change their life. I wonder if George Zimmerman wishes he'd had that now. I know a lot of city cops and none of them treat using their gun lightly and with only one exception have I ever heard any boast of pointing it at someone. The latter was asked to leave the force early.

[72Hardtop]

That column mentioned three young men who were shot while minding their own business. None were armed. Yet the response was we should assume they are. An assumption based on what?. Their age? The color of their skin? And who recommends we assume people are armed. The NRA? Sure, they just love sowing seeds of fear. Good for business and all. I've worked in and near the hood for most of my years without fear relying on nothing more than my wit and charm. I live in the big bad city. I've been in situations and never have I thought a gun would be helpful. In fact a gun would have always made things worse. What the heck is everyone so afraid of. It's crazy.

But why wouldn't a citizen inform? For Pete's sake doesn't practicing prudence and avoiding killing someone make sense? I thought the whole point of wanting a gun was simply for protection, not to create a setup to justify shooting someone e.g. Death Wish 1 - 39

In every concealed carry / stand your ground discussion I've participated in is bravado and wannabe cop speak. Words like the perp, the suspect etc. Words that dehumanize another person. Let's not forget we are talking about human beings, who by the way, are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. This notion armed citizens ought to be able to shoot, without consequence, anyone they deem suspicious or scary is insane. Maybe it would make sense for those who wish to arm themselves and speak easily about killing to spend time with someone who has killed another person. Perhaps a little perspective before they do something that will unalterably change their life. I wonder if George Zimmerman wishes he'd had that now. I know a lot of city cops and none of them treat using their gun lightly and with only one exception have I ever heard any boast of pointing it at someone. The latter was asked to leave the force early.

According to your belief no one should have the right to take another life under ANY circumstance. What nonsense is that? Stand your ground was NOT used as a defense in the TM/Zimmerman case. You are aware of that aren't you?

400+ million guns on the streets and in citizens homes says it probably good advice to assume that anyone you come across these days may likely be armed. How many lives do you have?

[RussellK]

That column mentioned three young men who were shot while minding their own business. None were armed. Yet the response was we should assume they are. An assumption based on what?. Their age? The color of their skin? And who recommends we assume people are armed. The NRA? Sure, they just love sowing seeds of fear. Good for business and all. I've worked in and near the hood for most of my years without fear relying on nothing more than my wit and charm. I live in the big bad city. I've been in situations and never have I thought a gun would be helpful. In fact a gun would have always made things worse. What the heck is everyone so afraid of. It's crazy.

But why wouldn't a citizen inform? For Pete's sake doesn't practicing prudence and avoiding killing someone make sense? I thought the whole point of wanting a gun was simply for protection, not to create a setup to justify shooting someone e.g. Death Wish 1 - 39

In every concealed carry / stand your ground discussion I've participated in is bravado and wannabe cop speak. Words like the perp, the suspect etc. Words that dehumanize another person. Let's not forget we are talking about human beings, who by the way, are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. This notion armed citizens ought to be able to shoot, without consequence, anyone they deem suspicious or scary is insane. Maybe it would make sense for those who wish to arm themselves and speak easily about killing to spend time with someone who has killed another person. Perhaps a little perspective before they do something that will unalterably change their life. I wonder if George Zimmerman wishes he'd had that now. I know a lot of city cops and none of them treat using their gun lightly and with only one exception have I ever heard any boast of pointing it at someone. The latter was asked to leave the force early.

According to your belief no one should have the right to take another life under ANY circumstance. What nonsense is that? Stand your ground was NOT used as a defense in the TM/Zimmerman case. You are aware of that aren't you?

400+ million guns on the streets and in citizens homes says it probably good advice to assume that anyone you come across these days may likely be armed. How many lives do you have?

I would caution you to not presume to either know or state my belief. I've never said there wasn't any circumstance....what I've consistently said is the shooter should bear the responsibility that goes with using a gun including the necessary caution to determine it's use is justified. Necessary caution includes not playing pretend cop and stalking someone. It includes not thinking your gun should accompany you every time you step out to have a conversation with someone.

Whether stand your ground was used or not in the Zimmerman case strikes me as immaterial at this point given the discussion has been broadened to include stand your ground and concealed carry issues.

I've got one life. I prefer to not let fear run it.

And before any other assumptions get made I am a gun owner and past enthusiast. I dislike the NRA and the corrupt way they've controlled any reasonable discussion. I don't shoot much any more but my kids still do. The NRA and its campaign of fear has tainted the image of gun owners to that of small penis syndrome suffering little men terrified of their shadow. It angers and disgusts me.

[72Hardtop]

That column mentioned three young men who were shot while minding their own business. None were armed. Yet the response was we should assume they are. An assumption based on what?. Their age? The color of their skin? And who recommends we assume people are armed. The NRA? Sure, they just love sowing seeds of fear. Good for business and all. I've worked in and near the hood for most of my years without fear relying on nothing more than my wit and charm. I live in the big bad city. I've been in situations and never have I thought a gun would be helpful. In fact a gun would have always made things worse. What the heck is everyone so afraid of. It's crazy.

But why wouldn't a citizen inform? For Pete's sake doesn't practicing prudence and avoiding killing someone make sense? I thought the whole point of wanting a gun was simply for protection, not to create a setup to justify shooting someone e.g. Death Wish 1 - 39

In every concealed carry / stand your ground discussion I've participated in is bravado and wannabe cop speak. Words like the perp, the suspect etc. Words that dehumanize another person. Let's not forget we are talking about human beings, who by the way, are innocent of wrongdoing until proven otherwise. This notion armed citizens ought to be able to shoot, without consequence, anyone they deem suspicious or scary is insane. Maybe it would make sense for those who wish to arm themselves and speak easily about killing to spend time with someone who has killed another person. Perhaps a little perspective before they do something that will unalterably change their life. I wonder if George Zimmerman wishes he'd had that now. I know a lot of city cops and none of them treat using their gun lightly and with only one exception have I ever heard any boast of pointing it at someone. The latter was asked to leave the force early.

According to your belief no one should have the right to take another life under ANY circumstance. What nonsense is that? Stand your ground was NOT used as a defense in the TM/Zimmerman case. You are aware of that aren't you?

400+ million guns on the streets and in citizens homes says it probably good advice to assume that anyone you come across these days may likely be armed. How many lives do you have?

I would caution you to not presume to either know or state my belief. I've never said there wasn't any circumstance....what I've consistently said is the shooter should bear the responsibility that goes with using a gun including the necessary caution to determine it's use is justified. Necessary caution includes not playing pretend cop and stalking someone. It includes not thinking your gun should accompany you every time you step out to have a conversation with someone.

Whether stand your ground was used or not in the Zimmerman case strikes me as immaterial at this point given the discussion has been broadened to include stand your ground and concealed carry issues.

I've got one life. I prefer to not let fear run it.

And before any other assumptions get made I am a gun owner and past enthusiast. I dislike the NRA and the corrupt way they've controlled any reasonable discussion. I don't shoot much any more but my kids still do. The NRA and its campaign of fear has tainted the image of gun owners to that of small penis syndrome suffering little men terrified of their shadow. It angers and disgusts me.

There is no caution. What would you expect based on your own statement.

" Yet the response was we should assume they are. An assumption based on what?. Their age? The color of their skin? And who recommends we assume people are armed. The NRA? Sure, they just love sowing seeds of fear. Good for business and all. "

Mr. Zimmerman was never stalking anyone and he was also not performing any neighborhood patrols on the night of the incident. He happen to be passing thru the area at the time. It's in the court transcripts. Do you know what stalking is defined as under law? Having the legal right to carry a concealed weapon allows a person the right to have the weapon with them at just about anytime they like.

What gives you the right to say otherwise?

It isn't about fear. It's about being prepared for the unexpected.