Paul Ryan For Vice-President

[Reid]

Bleh. It's just lack of sleep and obnoxious neighbors, combined.

[Amskeptic]

I don't mean to take the conversation back fifty years, or two years, or down fifteen intellectual levels. There is part of me that hopes that I am just influenced by my immediate surroundings.

I meet many people who are living fifty years ago in their own minds, and whose intellectual levels are wholly unexercised. Many hotel clerks and parking lot chats later, I see that many people have truly turned off and tuned out from all of this polarizing banality.

When I tell them, "yes your vote matters, you do not if you are one of the few votes which decided the 2000 presidential race, or the squeakers that determine Congressional majorities, your vote this time may very well determine the make up of the Supreme Court via the President who appoints them."

We must rally the discouraged . . .
Colin

[dingo]

"Alas, it's all artifice, theater and stage tricks: the assets are still phantom, the collateral nonexistent, the guarantees empty and the power illusory. " C Hugh Smith

[rallybug]

As a recent legal immigrant (one year in a week's time!), I've been trying to get my head around the US political system, even though I can't vote until the next presidential election (I should become a citizen in 2015 or 2016, depending on various factors).

Trying to have a civil discussion on various message boards is turning into a farce - you get maybe one or two sensible replies to a question, and then the idiots appear from both sides, flinging insults at each other. Tis very discouraging :(

I must admit that I'm not a fan of the Romney/Ryan plan of deciding not to campaign on specifics, though - smacks of even more secrecy!

I'll keep an eye on this thread for learning purposes though

[glasseye]

"In many ways Ryan is THE American Taliban, as he stands for theocracy over democracy and ideological indoctrination over democratic education. His nomination as a running mate for Romney is an indication of how thoroughly our government has been infiltrated by those seeking to subvert the Constitution, undo decades of humanitarian gains and institutionalize a plutocracy fashioned after the Gilded Age and yet firmly set on a medieval past"


http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10936 ... -democracy

[ruckman101]

"In many ways Ryan is THE American Taliban, as he stands for theocracy over democracy and ideological indoctrination over democratic education. His nomination as a running mate for Romney is an indication of how thoroughly our government has been infiltrated by those seeking to subvert the Constitution, undo decades of humanitarian gains and institutionalize a plutocracy fashioned after the Gilded Age and yet firmly set on a medieval past"


http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10936 ... -democracy

Well sure, gains in a few states and going for it whole hog blitz-krieg! Giddy. Sorry, the rights guaranteed in the constitution for we the people wasn't intended to be granted to a corporate "person" whose rights legally trump those of we the people.


neal

[Amskeptic]

Trying to have a civil discussion on various message boards is turning into a farce - you get maybe one or two sensible replies to a question, and then the idiots appear from both sides, flinging insults at each other. Tis very discouraging :(

I'll keep an eye on this thread for learning purposes though

I pray that we are a pleasant surprise here. Where are you from?
Colin

[Bleyseng]

"In many ways Ryan is THE American Taliban, as he stands for theocracy over democracy and ideological indoctrination over democratic education. His nomination as a running mate for Romney is an indication of how thoroughly our government has been infiltrated by those seeking to subvert the Constitution, undo decades of humanitarian gains and institutionalize a plutocracy fashioned after the Gilded Age and yet firmly set on a medieval past"


http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10936 ... -democracy

plus he believes in the Ayn Rand crap and "trickle down economics" which we all know to be horsecrap so the GOP could dismantle SS and Medicare.

[Sylvester]

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10936 ... -democracy

plus he believes in the Ayn Rand crap and "trickle down economics" which we all know to be horsecrap so the GOP could dismantle SS and Medicare.[/quote]

This man gives me the willies, like the president in the Dead Zone movie.

The President: "Put your hand on the scanning screen, and you'll go down in history with me!"
General: "As what? The world's greatest mass murderers?"
The President: "You cowardly bastard! You're not the voice of the people, I am the voice of the people! The people speak through me, not you!"

And:

"The President: The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!"

I need to read more on this guy.

[Spezialist]

Maybe I've spent too much time in Alabama, but it still seems to me that the race issue is the driving factor for the partisan behavior, and poor candidate choice by the Republican party. I think that people will overlook the fact that these guys (Ryan/Romney) have nothing to offer almost all, except the wealthiest of Americans, just to get the black guy out of the White House. The wealthiest Americans know that they will benefit, and the zealots see something in Ryan to relate to. I really think that if people would just be honest and admit that they're uncomfortable with someone that looks a little different, we could drop the whole fake outrage Socialist/Muslim/whatever tag from Obama. Then, maybe people would put both sides under the microscope to really determine whose interests would benefit. We have some real work to do in this country, but it will never get accomplished if people avoid the elephant in the room and run to the extreme opposites.
I don't mean to take the conversation back fifty years, or two years, or down fifteen intellectual levels. There is part of me that hopes that I am just influenced by my immediate surroundings.

You have something here, something that's too hard to accept.
It's real, and it's a very basic fundemental reality.
The last Show I saw and respected by Bill Moyers had an author that very clearly showed that your right.
The repub base votes on personal values.
The dem base votes on social values.
The grand canyon is between.


The libs/dems fantasize that our nation has grown up as much as they personally have in their respective time here on earth.
Reality is a different hue.
Our nation right now is the most polarized it has ever been since Maccarthy.

I can only hope there will be one guy we can pin it on to end this junk,
Grover Norquist?

[dtrumbo]

The libs/dems fantasize that our nation has grown up as much as they personally have in their respective time here on earth. Reality is a different hue.

This is completely true for myself. My personal values changed dramatically when I became a father because becoming a parent made me realize that it's not "all about me". I sit and think that the nation must have changed their values just as I did nearly ten years ago but alas, they haven't. I say "it's 2012, aren't we better than this by now" which in reality makes me rather judgmental of those who haven't "seen the light" as I have. I need to step back and realize that everyone develops their value-system in a million different ways. For me, it was becoming a parent. For others, it's something completely different. The fact that our nation is so deeply polarized implies we are at the cross roads. Only time will tell how we continue to collectively develop. I personally hope we continue on the path we have and leave the issues Reid and Spezialist describe further and further behind. In my opinion, you're both spot-on.

It's an ice-age-like evolution but I believe we will move forward, albeit collectively kicking and screaming.

[pj]

Wow Reid why paint with an artist's brush when an industrial sprayer will do? According to you, first the people of Alabama are strident racists in your view and detest the President simply because of skin color. If that is so, why in the hell would you live in such a place? I don't know if you have any kids or not, but I'd sure as hell get out of such a place if my kids were in danger of picking up that vibe. Maybe you can move to NC, where I was born and raised, and who voted for Mr. Obama back in 2008. No, probably a bad idea. They might vote against him in Nov. 2008, you know love the black guy in 2008, fall out love with the black guy in 2012. Who knew skin color voting could be so fickle?

Second in your view one cannot disagree with the President on any substantive issue, because it it all boils back to his skin color. Almost everyone on this board including me, just not to the extent of others disagreed with the younger Bush on his policies. Using your theory it was all because he was white, not because some thought he was an idiot, unfit to lead, and or just downright dangerous to the republic. Nope just because he was white, I guess.

Well that is just stupid, as is your theory that I disagree with President Obama because he is black. I disagree with Mr. Obama, because he is an idiot, unfit to lead, and or just downright dangerous to the republic, just Like my good friend Neal thought about President Bush. Neal has his right to his opinion as a citizen, so do I, only without the derision from others calling me a racist.

Everyone wants us all to come together as a people to work together, it's pretty damn hard to do when half the folks call the other half names because we disagree.

[Amskeptic]

I disagree with Mr. Obama, because he is an idiot, unfit to lead, and or just downright dangerous to the republic,

Everyone wants us all to come together as a people to work together, it's pretty damn hard to do when half the folks call the other half names because we disagree.

One cannot disagree with an idiot *because* he is an idiot. One must reach deeper to define what policies expoused by the idiot give cause to your disagreement. One must define what leadership is to determine why the idiot is unfit to lead. And as for danger to the Republic, well, that is a fascinating basis for a conversation, you'd have to give us more examples.

It is easy and lazy to plop all that in one post, but it a reasonable argument does not make. To come together, to work together, we need to offer cogent arguments and solid examples as well as refrain from calling each other names, Mr. Mr. Mr. BlueBassBoatSparkleCandyAssRedCouncilman.
Colin

[Spezialist]

Wow Reid why paint with an artist's brush when an industrial sprayer will do? According to you, first the people of Alabama are strident racists in your view and detest the President simply because of skin color. If that is so, why in the hell would you live in such a place? I don't know if you have any kids or not, but I'd sure as hell get out of such a place if my kids were in danger of picking up that vibe. Maybe you can move to NC, where I was born and raised, and who voted for Mr. Obama back in 2008. No, probably a bad idea. They might vote against him in Nov. 2008, you know love the black guy in 2008, fall out love with the black guy in 2012. Who knew skin color voting could be so fickle?

Second in your view one cannot disagree with the President on any substantive issue, because it it all boils back to his skin color. Almost everyone on this board including me, just not to the extent of others disagreed with the younger Bush on his policies. Using your theory it was all because he was white, not because some thought he was an idiot, unfit to lead, and or just downright dangerous to the republic. Nope just because he was white, I guess.

Well that is just stupid, as is your theory that I disagree with President Obama because he is black. I disagree with Mr. Obama, because he is an idiot, unfit to lead, and or just downright dangerous to the republic, just Like my good friend Neal thought about President Bush. Neal has his right to his opinion as a citizen, so do I, only without the derision from others calling me a racist.

Everyone wants us all to come together as a people to work together, it's pretty damn hard to do when half the folks call the other half names because we disagree.

Wow I didn't get that at all, from Rieds post.
But I did note that you liked Killing Lincoln, and that definately was painted up by a famous spray bomber.

Don't forget what I wrote about the grand canyon between us.
Recognize each others difference in perspective.

In an open and completely honest example;
My wife (kinda liberal) told her dad (very conservative) that she wouldn't vote romney because he was Mormon, her dad was shocked!
And lambasted her for bigotry (delicately) then chastised Obama for being Muslim.

That canyon of different values just gets deeper, and that's what the money men prey upon.

[ruckman101]

The tick is that the more folks actually talk to each other, the quicker that grand canyon becomes a trickle of shared resource in a supportive community.


neal