The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

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The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:55 pm

The Rich Get Even Richer
By STEVEN RATTNER
The New York Times
Published: March 25, 2012


In 2010, as the nation continued to recover from the recession, a dizzying 93 percent of the additional income created in the country that year, compared to 2009 — $288 billion — went to the top 1 percent of taxpayers, those with at least $352,000 in income. That delivered an average single-year pay increase of 11.6 percent to each of these households.

Still more astonishing was the extent to which the super rich got rich faster than the merely rich. In 2010, 37 percent of these additional earnings went to just the top 0.01 percent, a teaspoon-size collection of about 15,000 households with average incomes of $23.8 million. These fortunate few saw their incomes rise by 21.5 percent.

The bottom 99 percent received a microscopic $80 increase in pay per person in 2010, after adjusting for inflation. The top 1 percent, whose average income is $1,019,089, had an 11.6 percent increase in income.

This new data, derived by the French economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez from American tax returns, also suggests that those at the top were more likely to earn than inherit their riches. That’s not completely surprising: the rapid growth of new American industries — from technology to financial services — has increased the need for highly educated and skilled workers. At the same time, old industries like manufacturing are employing fewer blue-collar workers.

The result? Pay for college graduates has risen by 15.7 percent over the past 32 years (after adjustment for inflation) while the income of a worker without a high school diploma has plummeted by 25.7 percent over the same period.

Government has also played a role, particularly the George W. Bush tax cuts, which, among other things, gave the wealthy a 15 percent tax on capital gains and dividends. That’s the provision that caused Warren E. Buffett’s secretary to have a higher tax rate than he does.

As a result, the top 1 percent has done progressively better in each economic recovery of the past two decades. In the Clinton era expansion, 45 percent of the total income gains went to the top 1 percent; in the Bush recovery, the figure was 65 percent; now it is 93 percent.

Just as the causes of the growing inequality are becoming better known, so have the contours of solving the problem: better education and training, a fairer tax system, more aid programs for the disadvantaged to encourage the social mobility needed for them escape the bottom rung, and so on.

Government, of course, can’t fully address some of the challenges, like globalization, but it can help.

By the end of the year, deadlines built into several pieces of complex legislation will force a gridlocked Congress’s hand. Most significantly, all of the Bush tax cuts will expire. If Congress does not act, tax rates will return to the higher, pre-2000, Clinton-era levels. In addition, $1.2 trillion of automatic spending cuts that were set in motion by the failure of the last attempt at a deficit reduction deal will take effect.

So far, the prospects for progress are at best worrisome, at worst terrifying. Earlier this week, House Republicans unveiled an unsavory stew of highly regressive tax cuts, large but unspecified reductions in discretionary spending (a category that importantly includes education, infrastructure and research and development), and an evisceration of programs devoted to lifting those at the bottom, including unemployment insurance, food stamps, earned income tax credits and many more.

Policies of this sort would exacerbate the very problem of income inequality that most needs fixing. Next week’s package from House Democrats will almost certainly be more appealing. And to his credit, President Obama has spoken eloquently about the need to address this problem. But with Democrats in the minority in the House and an election looming, passage is unlikely.

The only way to redress the income imbalance is by implementing policies that are oriented toward reversing the forces that caused it. That means letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy and adding money to some of the programs that House Republicans seek to cut. Allowing this disparity to continue is both bad economic policy and bad social policy. We owe those at the bottom a fairer shot at moving up.

Steven Rattner is a contributing writer for Op-Ed and a longtime Wall Street executive.
When Americans wake up to this, there should be trouble. Addiction is a terrible disease and requires painful intervention. When the addict not only has no clue that he is causing great suffering, but is proud of himself . . .
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:10 am

Amskeptic wrote:When Americans wake up to this, there should be trouble.
Sadly there will be no awakening on any scale necessary to make a change. Occupy was the closest thing we'll see to any sort of uprising and look what happened to that. Squashed and fizzled. It's population control at it's finest. They won. The vast majority of the US citizenry are fat and complacent. Lazy people don't revolt. Soon enough there will even be ~30,000 UAVs tooling around the skies of the US "protecting" us.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:12 am

Sorry... still waiting for my morning coffee to kick my usually sunny disposition into place. Heh, heh... :shaking2:
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:28 am

BumbleBus wrote:Sorry... still waiting for my morning coffee to kick my usually sunny disposition into place. Heh, heh... :shaking2:
I am working on cup #362. Here's the schedule:

10:00AM cup #1
10:03AM cup #2
<snip>
12:00PM cup #328
<snip>
11:34PM cup # 12,789
11:38PM cup # 12,790
etc.

We can enjoy the beautiful day and do our work and love our people and watch hell break loose. The Life Brochure promised nothing. If you see someone who needs your help, help. That's it. Can you help me move this 55 gallon drum of used coffee grounds out for its hourly pick-up?
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by JLT » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:48 pm

And it will get worse before it gets better, if the GOP has its way:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

Among other things, Mr. Dionne had this to say about Paul Ryan's proposed legislation:
Robert Greenstein, president of the progressive Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, is tough on deficits, careful in his use of numbers, and measured in his choice of words. These traits make his assessment of Ryan’s proposal all the more instructive.

“It would likely produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history and likely increase poverty and inequality more than any other budget in recent times (and possibly in the nation’s history),” Greenstein wrote. “Specifically, the Ryan budget would impose extraordinary cuts in programs that serve as a lifeline for our nation’s poorest and most vulnerable citizens, and over time would cause tens of millions of Americans to lose their health insurance or become underinsured.”

Thanks to Ryan, we now know that this election is not about deficits at all. It is about whether we will respond to growing inequalities of wealth and income by creating even larger inequalities of wealth and income.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Lanval » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:03 pm

The discussion of wealth in this country reminds of an old Calvin and Hobbes strip; to wit:

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/08/30

When people are confronted with a system that: A. has absolute power, and B. refuses to change/adapt, violence isn't just the logical choice, it's the only choice.

Personally, I don't see the Wall Street protest as a failure per se; I suspect that historically it will be seen as one in a series of escalating events that led to dramatic change. At the time, the "Boston Massacre" was just another police action against unruly subjects in the British Empire; history, however, has rendered that action rather differently. The wealthy can't say they weren't warned; the recent protests are a warning shot across the bow ~ if enough people are dissatisfied, things will change. The elites had, and still have, the opportunity to control how that change happens. If they ignore it, the change will happen without the input of the elites, and they will likely get a first-hand review of what happens when you ignore the pleas of the people: French Revolution and Russian Revolution. How did the elites make out in those protests?

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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

As much as I abhor most things Republican I firmly believe nothing will change with the current hand out mentality of our government. Entitlement programs are destroying this country even as they work to keep people fed and sheltered... but the right people? I work at a ski resort with a lot of minimum wage type jobs and know a LOT of locals that would rather collect unemployment and food stamps and just ski all day. There is zero work ethic amongst most locals here. Everyone feels entitled to everything for free. It's sickening. I know single mothers with four kids dressed in leather boots with Fendi hand bags slung across their shoulders with their SUVs idling in the parking lot and they're buying their kids Mac & Cheese with food stamps. That's not right. They have more and more kids so they get more and more kick backs from the state. Etc. We're lambasted every season for hiring international workers from Peru and Brazil etc. and yet barely any locals are willing to work for $8-9/hr making beds or being a line cook. The international kids work incredibly hard with a smile on their face etc.

My only point being that you keep all these insane entitlements in place and there will be no change or uprising or anything amongst the "poor" because they're being given everything for free anyway.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Lanval » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:48 pm

BumbleBus wrote:As much as I abhor most things Republican I firmly believe nothing will change with the current hand out mentality of our government. Entitlement programs are destroying this country even as they work to keep people fed and sheltered... but the right people? I work at a ski resort with a lot of minimum wage type jobs and know a LOT of locals that would rather collect unemployment and food stamps and just ski all day. There is zero work ethic amongst most locals here. Everyone feels entitled to everything for free. It's sickening. I know single mothers with four kids dressed in leather boots with Fendi hand bags slung across their shoulders with their SUVs idling in the parking lot and they're buying their kids Mac & Cheese with food stamps. That's not right. They have more and more kids so they get more and more kick backs from the state. Etc. We're lambasted every season for hiring international workers from Peru and Brazil etc. and yet barely any locals are willing to work for $8-9/hr making beds or being a line cook. The international kids work incredibly hard with a smile on their face etc.

My only point being that you keep all these insane entitlements in place and there will be no change or uprising or anything amongst the "poor" because they're being given everything for free anyway.
Yes, I think it will take something bigger; there are a couple of issues here, but in simple terms:

1. The rich pay less tax, driving the burden onto the middle class
2. The middle class shrinks due to increasing percentage of tax burden (i.e. they pay a larger percent than the really wealthy)
3. Reduced income results in fewer handouts
4. Fewer handouts increases dissatisfaction

There is no way out of the quandary; either the system functions to spread wealth, or concentrate wealth. At no point in history have the wealthy been able to maintain a hold over the poor (long term), because eventually they have to either give some back to placate the poor or face a potential uprising. It's gone both ways many times. It's also important to remember that the US doesn't live in a vacuum; it could well be that events outside of the control of the US lead to dramatic changes. Those could be political (issues surrounding Mexico, China or others), biological (disease, ala' The Black Death, Spanish Flu) or natural (earthquake, hurricane, etc.) Once a bottleneck appears, the rich won't be able to buy their way out.

Note that I speak in the long term. As a medievalist, I don't look at things in terms of years, or even decades. The end of Feudalism/the Manorial system in England was achieved over several hundred years, due to a range of things: Political (the failure of the English to make anything useful of the expenditures on the 100 years war with the French [a lesson here for the US, I would think]), Economic (the increasing value of trade destabilizes social stratification, while creating new opportunities) and technological (the invention of the longbow and somewhat later, the handheld gun made Knights, the central element of the Feudal/Manorial system obsolete within 100 years); but those were happening rather slowly... until 1348. The arrival of the Black Death created circumstances in which no amount of social/legal restriction could maintain the privilege of the nobility. From that period onwards, the decline of the authority was clear, but note that it still took about 500 years to get to the point where we can reasonably say that the English nobility no longer exert meaningful authority over the English people.

I remember reading a piece written by a well-known Roman figure during the late Empire. He lamented that he could hardly go outdoors, because if he did, people who knew him would insist on taking him to the courts of law, or the games in the Coliseum ~ suing people, and watching sports being the two of the main occupations of the citizens at the time. The parallels aren't exact, but not very comforting is it? We may not live to see the wealthy get their comeuppance, but if they insist on tilting the tables ever more dramatically in their favor, history tells us what the end result will be. It may be more peaceful as was the case in England, or more bloody as was the case in America, France, Russia, and Italy, but it will happen.

Less historical, but based in my own belief: if meaningful change isn't implemented within my own lifetime (I'll give it another 40 years) AND circumstances don't improve in some other way (economic growth, rising tide lifts all boats, etc.), I expect to see a continuation of the recent protests. Those people are still out there; they're still angry. Only now they've seen that coordinated large scale protests won't effect change. What do you suppose some of them are thinking about now? Read the Calvin comic again...

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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:26 pm

Lanval wrote:It's also important to remember that the US doesn't live in a vacuum; it could well be that events outside of the control of the US lead to dramatic changes.
I totally agree with this. Bernanke, Goldman Sachs and company may think they have control of the situation, but something outside their control could bring the whole house of cards down very easily. Black swan. Based on how many colds/flus I've had this year compared to rarely ever getting sick I'm gonna predict biological. :thumbright:
Lanval wrote:Note that I speak in the long term. As a medievalist, I don't look at things in terms of years, or even decades.
Instant global communication dramatically speeds things up these days. I would not be the least bit surprised if we see the complete collapse of the United States "empire" in our lifetimes, if not within the next decade or two. They can keep trying to kick the can, but sooner or later it'll get the best of them. Can you say Ni Hao... unless China collapses first... hmm.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:02 pm

BumbleBus wrote: nothing will change with the current hand out mentality of our government.
Entitlement programs are destroying this country
they work to keep people fed and sheltered... but the right people?
It's sickening.
They have more and more kids
you keep all these insane entitlements in place and there will be no change or uprising or anything amongst the "poor" because they're being given everything for free anyway.
I'm sorry. This is too small a view in my opinion.

"They have more and more kids"?? Really now.

Why are you not sickened by billions in handouts to Halliburton and KRB and Goldman Sachs that could not only put food in everyone's stomachs, but put them through a decent primary education and put them through college too, while we're at it?

Given everything for free. The U.S. Congress itself. Free healthcare followed by a rich retirement and . . . lobbying gigs. It is sickening.

When I drop dead and show up at the Pearly Gates, I do not want to answer to beating up on poor people before I beat up on undeserving rich people who scam the rest of us through lobbying and making stuff that kills people and ripping off the taxpayers. That's my rules, anyway.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:07 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I'm sorry. This is too small a view in my opinion.

"They have more and more kids"?? Really now.
Now hang on... I wasn't trying to dissect anything except a small, local example painfully obvious to me every day where I live. It's all perspective of course. :sunny:
Amskeptic wrote:Why are you not sickened by billions in handouts to Halliburton and KRB and Goldman Sachs that could not only put food in everyone's stomachs, but put them through a decent primary education and put them through college too, while we're at it?
I am totally sickened. I can't dwell on corporate corruption & evil though without... wait... ack... trying to hold it back... :pukeright:
Amskeptic wrote:I do not want to answer to beating up on poor people before I beat up on undeserving rich people who scam the rest of us through lobbying and making stuff that kills people and ripping off the taxpayers.
I was not intending my message to be beating on poor people. I'm simply stating that the policies that provide "poor" people their entitlements are completely unsustainable. Equally unsustainable is the continued re-distribution of wealth to the upper echelons. The whole kit and caboodle needs a reboot.

It's really not even worth the discourse except to at least have an awareness that something, somehow needs to be done... someday... by someone.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:21 pm

BumbleBus wrote: I was not intending my message to be beating on poor people. I'm simply stating that the policies that provide "poor" people their entitlements are completely unsustainable.

something, somehow needs to be done... someday... by someone.
When it is written (above) that they have kids to cop benefits, it is beating on poor people.
There are ski bums the world over from every class. Some are even doctors from Massachusetts who have ripped off Medicare by millions, but you would what, open the door for them? Some are CEOs of mining companies, but they look spiffy and drive a nice car, lets kick the mother at McDonalds the immoral thieving mother with the what-the-hell-is-a-Fendi-handbag.

Unsustainable are the entitlements for oil companies and agribusiness and pharmaceuticals and banks (did you know that Uncle Sam has somehow agreed to cover military contractor businesses whose pension obligations drop in perceived value, but no such reverse occurs?

Are we pounding on the poor for welfare? Your average welfare recipient is on the dole for a total of 27 months, is a 27 year-old white single mother, and dammit if I have not seen a lot alot a lot of hard-working poor who cannot even get ahead enough to pay the damn rent, they work two jobs, one at WalMart one at Pizza Hut, can't get ahead, can't put their kids to bed. Come on! Go after the rich bastards first, please? for me?

Unsustainable policies RIGHT NOW are tax cuts for people whose incomes went up 20% LAST YEAR that would be the .001%ers.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:49 pm

Amskeptic wrote:Are we pounding on the poor for welfare? Your average welfare recipient is on the dole for a total of 27 months, is a 27 year-old white single mother, and dammit if I have not seen a lot alot a lot of hard-working poor who cannot even get ahead enough to pay the damn rent, they work two jobs, one at WalMart one at Pizza Hut, can't get ahead, can't put their kids to bed. Come on! Go after the rich bastards first, please? for me?
Clearly I've hit a nerve. Not my (well meaning) intentions. I don't mean to be promoting class warfare certainly. Let's just agree that there are people of all sorts abusing the "system" regardless their financial status. That 27 year old welfare recipient you mention is as likely to be hooked on smack, for example, as a corporate CEO is... seems everyone is crooked these days... *sigh*
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:27 am

BumbleBus wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:Are we pounding on the poor for welfare? Your average welfare recipient is on the dole for a total of 27 months, is a 27 year-old white single mother, and dammit if I have not seen a lot alot a lot of hard-working poor who cannot even get ahead enough to pay the damn rent, they work two jobs, one at WalMart one at Pizza Hut, can't get ahead, can't put their kids to bed. Come on! Go after the rich bastards first, please? for me?
Clearly I've hit a nerve.
That 27 year old welfare recipient you mention is as likely to be hooked on smack, for example, as a corporate CEO is...
Yep.

I don't even believe the next sentence. "As likely" as the CEO? No. We don't paint CEO's with that brush. We hit the welfare "trash" with that stereotype. I don't even remember talking about drug addiction in this conversation. But,here it is. Do you believe in drug testing welfare recipients, while Rush Limbaugh uses his housekeeper to buy oxycontin for him? All those poor poor Hollywood stars pounding the doors down at rehab centers, let's pick on the welfare recipient. We are a Nation of addicts in so many ways it isn't fair to single out any group of people for judgment. Social entitlements are not the problem. Welfare rolls dropped under Clinton, but strangely enough, Bumblebus, the percentage of GDP spent on social programs for the poor has dropped too, (reported at 6.4% but some is retirement, direct spending is 5.5%) just not enough to cover the ridiculous and unnecessary tax cuts for the rich. What do you think we should do with those whose incomes, in the aggregate have increased 50% since since the recession began? What should we do with the half of all bankruptcies caused by medical expenses just not covered by insurance? A fifth of the children in the richest country in the world are growing up in poverty. Screw 'em, let them eat dirt.
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Re: The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

Post by BumbleBus » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:17 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I don't even believe the next sentence. "As likely" as the CEO? No. We don't paint CEO's with that brush. We hit the welfare "trash" with that stereotype. I don't even remember talking about drug addiction in this conversation. But,here it is. Do you believe in drug testing welfare recipients, while Rush Limbaugh uses his housekeeper to buy oxycontin for him? All those poor poor Hollywood stars pounding the doors down at rehab centers, let's pick on the welfare recipient. We are a Nation of addicts in so many ways it isn't fair to single out any group of people for judgment. Social entitlements are not the problem. Welfare rolls dropped under Clinton, but strangely enough, Bumblebus, the percentage of GDP spent on social programs for the poor has dropped too, (reported at 6.4% but some is retirement, direct spending is 5.5%) just not enough to cover the ridiculous and unnecessary tax cuts for the rich. What do you think we should do with those whose incomes, in the aggregate have increased 50% since since the recession began? What should we do with the half of all bankruptcies caused by medical expenses just not covered by insurance? A fifth of the children in the richest country in the world are growing up in poverty. Screw 'em, let them eat dirt.
Colin
I'm gonna bow out after this because, while I mean no harm & am clearly upset about similar things as you, I'm not feeling informed enough to have an intelligent conversation here and feel my perspective is clouded and one sighted perhaps. I live a pretty hyper localized life at this point... by choice. I am, in no way, hoping that anyone "eats dirt". I grew up "privileged" and have seen first hand people with money abuse it and abuse the system and abuse drugs and abuse each other ad nauseam. Having lost said privilege over the decades I've also seen it all from the lower rungs as well. To my mind there is no distinction between rich or poor when a person is taking advantage of something. Rush Limbaugh and his housekeeper are equally at fault. The problems in this society are too vast and complex to categorize by income. Let's go after the rich first... I don't care... I just don't think it will help... or even be even remotely effective sadly.
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