The Rich Are Still Getting Richer

[ruckman101]

Currently the constitutional rights of corporations trump the constitutional rights of we the people. We need to get out of a regulatory response to crimes against the earth, people and communities and embrace our inherent sovereignty. To be unable to ban fracking, and only beg to minimize the damage through regulation only allows the rich to get richer and the people to lose their vote.

Start locally with city ordinances that reflect the rights of it's citizens to govern themselves and stripping corporations of personhood. Already close to 150 communities have done this and the number is growing. I believe Benton County in Oregon is currently working on enacting an ordinance of this nature. When corporations have to make the argument in court that their constitutional rights trump those of local citizens, be may see the beginning of the end of corporate "personhood", the underlying cancer of our society and country.


neal

[Amskeptic]

When corporations have to make the argument in court that their constitutional rights trump those of local citizens, we may see the beginning of the end of corporate "personhood", the underlying cancer of our society and country.
neal

=D> =D>

[Lanval]

d LanvalWhoWon'tListen

I'm not the one refusing to acknowledge a widely accepted fact, simply because I'm uncomfortable with the implications.

Michael L

[Lanval]

look at Hiroller ~ Guy shows up, says "I'm a historian" like that's some kind of Jedi mind trick, and we should treat his statements as pronouncements from on high? You don't often see historians walking around making broad, anachronistic claims, and simultaneously dismissing the value of external citations (the single most important part of historical research) and then follows it up by attacking "sweeping generalizations" even as he uses the term "mainstream media" (apparently un-ironically)... seriously? I'm not allowed to make generalizations, but others are?

Hm-m-m ... that's about as defensive as it can get ... pulling phrases out of context, twisting meaning and intent. It's as if you're not really very confident with your own perspectives on this issue but refuse to budge ... perhaps from fear of losing face ?

And to complete the unholy trifecta of anti-intellectual carnage, asserts (in an argument that the Baby Boomers are predisposed to be self-righteous, arrogant and dismissive of others) that he's right because he was there (self-righteous; and as if the perspectives of those who came after are invalid ~ an extraordinary claim for a historian to make!) and I'm wrong (dismissive), and he doesn't need any additional support for his argument (arrogant).

... and more spins plus now trying to sway Colin to your side for moral support ?

Colin, you say: "I do not personally know one real babybooming arrogant selfish butthead here on this forum."

.... and repeatly tossing insults toward me and others on this thread as a last resort ?

look at Hiroller ~ Guy shows up

You got that right ... I've been following IAC since it's inception but a very recent poster.

Michael L. -- We've never met and I don't know you from Adam. For all I know you're the nicest guy and greatest Vw bus driver that ever was. But I felt I had something to say in response to such inaccuracy of which I've never heard before (except maybe from the Tea Party ) from anyone from any age group. You need to take a few steps back and look at the big picture, ditch the tunnelvision and dogma. Throwing comments back in people's faces doesn't make you look good.

History is a continuum. People of all ages have their people of great character and intestinal fortitude plus malice and greed. It's called being human. It cannot be reduced down to simple angry marginalization of any one age group. Everyone is born into an era with a palate of challenges. How everyone deals with such defines whether one is either part of the problem or the solution.

Instead of vitrolic backward finger pointing, perhaps you'd be better served offering some helpful solutions to the challenges du jour.

Care to talk down to me a bit more? You can't fix a problem unless you understand what caused it. You don't want to deal in historical and current realities? that's fine; Portland is a great place to live in the past. I don't wish to. I'll add though, you can save yourself the condescending rhetoric; I don't need anyone's approval, and vague claims of expertise are worth nothing to me. You have yet to offer anything to suggest your opinion is even worth the time I've spent on it thus far, and your arguments are as easily ignored as your insults.

Michael L

[Amskeptic]

Portland is a great place to live in the past.
save yourself the condescending rhetoric;

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . !


Let's step back, shall we?

This is a conversation amongst friends, it does not need to meet any academic standards.
I think we have fleshed out opinions (there are no facts here), I think there is a disagreement that cannot be proved, and may not be bridgeable either. The Republic shall stand or fall regardless.
Colin

[ruckman101]

I'm still licking my wounds to ego after my most recent schooling in this forum by Lanval and Colin over kiddy porn. Tucked my tail and ran. My tail is only now beginning to emerge from between my cheeks. Still trying to live down that other thing.

I realize I've hit this discussion late, in some regards having missed the points of acrimony. But truly, this forum perhaps more than any other is amongst friends. And I'm a slow learner.

A forum as a communication model is fuzzy with static of misconstrued interpretation when compared to human to human. And even human to human communication can get dicey on occasion because of the static of the message delivery system called speech.

Embrace the ride.



neal

[Lanval]

I'm still licking my wounds to ego after my most recent schooling in this forum by Lanval and Colin over kiddy porn. Tucked my tail and ran. My tail is only now beginning to emerge from between my cheeks. Still trying to live down that other thing.

I realize I've hit this discussion late, in some regards having missed the points of acrimony. But truly, this forum perhaps more than any other is amongst friends. And I'm a slow learner.

A forum as a communication model is fuzzy with static of misconstrued interpretation when compared to human to human. And even human to human communication can get dicey on occasion because of the static of the message delivery system called speech.

Embrace the ride.

Neal,

neal

Thanks once again for your reasonable voice; I am well reminded of my limitations by you, Colin, Hiroller and others.


Michael L

[HiRoller]

Care to talk down to me a bit more?

No ... not really. I feel the discussion/debate/argument is unilateral.

Portland is a great place to live in the past.

It does have a lot of free spirits including me.

you can save yourself the condescending rhetoric

Well ... I meant it sincerely without condescending intent.

your arguments are as easily ignored as your insults.

Ok ... I hope, as I sense it, your overall anger and targeting will mellow in time.

E-mail sure is a difficult way to express true intent and emotion.

Cheers

[Amskeptic]

I hope, as I sense it, your overall anger and targeting will mellow in time.

Not a chance in hell, you have not answered if that is your doublecab or not.
Colin

[Lanval]

Ok ... I hope, as I sense it, your overall anger and targeting will mellow in time.

Again, just to be clear:

Someone from the generation that gave the world "don't trust anyone over 30!" and warbled along to the Who's My Generation, bleating the lines "Hope I die before I get old" is chastising me for being angry at the previous generation?


Somewhere, irony is dying a horrible death.

ML

[Amskeptic]

Ok ... I hope, as I sense it, your overall anger and targeting will mellow in time.

Again, just to be clear:

Someone from the generation that gave the world "don't trust anyone over 30!" and warbled along to the Who's My Generation, bleating the lines "Hope I die before I get old" is chastising me for being angry at the previous generation?


Somewhere, irony is dying a horrible death.

ML

Stop. Stop. Someone from the generation that gave the world "Imagine" is asking you to back off. Chill.
I don't give a good goddamn how many "cites" you drag the fuck up to tar people who don't deserve to be stuffed in stupid little useless bitching boxes. Being "angry at a generation" is tilting at windmills.

Some of us do not identify with others' stupid labels, what the hell, do you fuck with every German who had the misfortune to be a young adult under Hitler's reign? Do you sneer at people who had to call Spiro Agnew a peer? How about all of those people who watched the March on Birmingham?

You appear to have a deep chasm of misunderstanding of how history works, how human beings evolve both as individuals stuck in the times they find themselves in, and as a society. It is a dead-end of insane bitterness. Is it landing on your students? I save my anger for real individual people with individual names who need a good talking-to in the present, all that talent being wasted on private wars inside of their own heads.

The implosion that is occurring in this country I do not lay at the feet of a "generation". I lay it at the feet of real individuals like the Koch brothers, Lee Atwater and Karl Rove and Newt Gringrich and Tom Delay and what the hell, let's include Jack Abramoff and Bernie Madoff, and others who made decisions to use the forces of darkness to further their self-centered goals. Every generation (whatever the hell that is anyhow where is the cut-off, what birthday gives a soul a rest from your vituperation?) has wonderful souls and incomprehensible souls.

You want to get all "scientific on me, Lanval? Here is some science. Deny this, defy this, denigrate this, call me a fact-free fool, we are energy. That is what we are. Elements. Atoms. To heck with your assumptions, we are miracles, open your eyes.
Colin

[HiRoller]

Not a chance in hell, you have not answered if that is your doublecab or not. Colin

Yes indeed ... it's a '69 and I restored it from the ground up, drove it for 25 years, but alas during a personal financial crises had to sell it. It was my all time favorite.

Have owned Vw's consistently since the late 60's. During the 80's and early 90's I restored numerous trucks and one notchback as a hobby.

In the late 50's, brand new Vw splitties began showing up in driveways in my 'hood. Squeeky clean sambas with ragtops, velvet greens and light tans. They looked like cool outer space pods to us with squirrel cage engines. Then everyone discovered they were very functional and did extremely well in snow (in PA). That really kicked off sales.

In the early 60's my older sister's boyfriend drove up in a new baby-blue beetle. Everyone of all ages ran out to look at it - it's imprinted in my mind. I was smitten ... it would be like a small space ship landing in your back yard today.

[Amskeptic]

Not a chance in hell, you have not answered if that is your doublecab or not. Colin

Yes indeed ... it's a '69 and I restored it from the ground up, drove it for 25 years, but alas during a personal financial crises had to sell it. It was my all time favorite.

Have owned Vw's consistently since the late 60's. During the 80's and early 90's I restored numerous trucks and one notchback as a hobby.

And do you have a VW currently in this sunset of the baby-boomer collapse of civilization?
It is recommended that you put all liquid finances into VW assets as a hedge against inflation.
Colin

[HiRoller]

And do you have a VW currently in this sunset of the baby-boomer collapse of civilization?

As the cash flush boomers ensure spaceship earth is hurtling toward certain doom, absolutely convinced it's in their best interest to do so, I do indeed.

It is recommended that you put all liquid finances into VW assets as a hedge against inflation.
Colin

As an excessively cash-thieving boomer I have also done so. If I could afford land and a barn I'd gobble up more to store thus depriving future generations of their rightfully deserved free inheritance

[Lanval]

Ok ... I hope, as I sense it, your overall anger and targeting will mellow in time.

Again, just to be clear:

Someone from the generation that gave the world "don't trust anyone over 30!" and warbled along to the Who's My Generation, bleating the lines "Hope I die before I get old" is chastising me for being angry at the previous generation?


Somewhere, irony is dying a horrible death.

ML

Stop. Stop. Someone from the generation that gave the world "Imagine" is asking you to back off. Chill.
I don't give a good goddamn how many "cites" you drag the fuck up to tar people who don't deserve to be stuffed in stupid little useless bitching boxes. Being "angry at a generation" is tilting at windmills.

Some of us do not identify with others' stupid labels, what the hell, do you fuck with every German who had the misfortune to be a young adult under Hitler's reign? Do you sneer at people who had to call Spiro Agnew a peer? How about all of those people who watched the March on Birmingham?

You appear to have a deep chasm of misunderstanding of how history works, how human beings evolve both as individuals stuck in the times they find themselves in, and as a society. It is a dead-end of insane bitterness. Is it landing on your students? I save my anger for real individual people with individual names who need a good talking-to in the present, all that talent being wasted on private wars inside of their own heads.

The implosion that is occurring in this country I do not lay at the feet of a "generation". I lay it at the feet of real individuals like the Koch brothers, Lee Atwater and Karl Rove and Newt Gringrich and Tom Delay and what the hell, let's include Jack Abramoff and Bernie Madoff, and others who made decisions to use the forces of darkness to further their self-centered goals. Every generation (whatever the hell that is anyhow where is the cut-off, what birthday gives a soul a rest from your vituperation?) has wonderful souls and incomprehensible souls.

You want to get all "scientific on me, Lanval? Here is some science. Deny this, defy this, denigrate this, call me a fact-free fool, we are energy. That is what we are. Elements. Atoms. To heck with your assumptions, we are miracles, open your eyes.
Colin

"Is it landing on your students?"

How could it not, when they are confronted with messages like this:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dumbest-Gener ... 792&sr=8-1

I guess you think it is just chance that the author calls today's youth "the dumbest generation" as a parody of "the greatest generation". Or that his use of the phrase "or don't trust anyone under 30" comes entirely from the author, and is not meant to resonate to a whole group of people who self-identify according to a set of values, ages, experiences and so on.

That said, you've made your point, though I doubt it's the point you were trying to make. You want to shout me down in your own forum because you don't like what I'm saying, by all means.

There are too many good people who have asked for my time to spend more here on this or anything else. I leave you to hiroller and the your tribe.

Michael L