American Values

[glasseye]

That "charity" appears so frequently is very interesting. It certainly maps to my experience of Americans.
(Not that I've needed charity, but sometimes I did need a little help in ways other than monetary)

The "initiative" and "self-reliance" characteristics of Americans are self evident. I'm not sure if they're conscious "values" or just characteristics that have evolved. Charity is certainly intentional.

I guess the reason for my original question relates to the frequently-mentioned idea that America's values and her interests seem to have become misaligned. I'm wondering if that might be a source of some of the obvious discontent.

As for Canadian values... Let's see...

Plenty of firewood.
Sharp skates.
Quality bug dope.

[ruckman101]

I think that "misaligned values and interests" is a political cudgel employed by conservatives and Christian fundamentalists in their declared war on any interests or values that differ from their perceived "correct" ones.

I would suggest that those folks are the ones that have "misaligned values and interests", and I resent them passing legislation in an effort to cram their values down my throat. Nothing but culture warriors trying to live in the past.

And of course in politics, those issues are used to divide and polarize the populace into "us vs them" camps. It's we.


neal

[glasseye]

I think that "misaligned values and interests" is a political cudgel employed by conservatives and Christian fundamentalists in their declared war on any interests or values that differ from their perceived "correct" ones.
neal

I don't think it's a political cudgel at all. I think it's a fact. And it's that fact that accounts for much of the dissonance we're seeing. America's stated values and her interests are no longer aligned. In other words, the pursuit of the interests is at the expense of the values.

On the other hand, sometimes, the confluence of American values and interests that I see are nothing short of extraordinary. In fact, they regularly bring tears of joy. I refer in part to the Rose Bowl Parade, a signal event I have twice attended. Few things make me feel as good inside as the sights and sounds of America on display there every year in Pasadena.

Especially the surfing dogs.

[hambone]

I can't imagine a parade for a football game evoking such a reaction! Hopeless you are.

[ruckman101]

I think that "misaligned values and interests" is a political cudgel employed by conservatives and Christian fundamentalists in their declared war on any interests or values that differ from their perceived "correct" ones.
neal

I don't think it's a political cudgel at all. I think it's a fact. And it's that fact that accounts for much of the dissonance we're seeing. America's stated values and her interests are no longer aligned. In other words, the pursuit of the interests is at the expense of the values.

On the other hand, sometimes, the confluence of American values and interests that I see are nothing short of extraordinary. In fact, they regularly bring tears of joy. I refer in part to the Rose Bowl Parade, a signal event I have twice attended. Few things make me feel as good inside as the sights and sounds of America on display there every year in Pasadena.

Especially the surfing dogs.

There is a rift between the values and interests of the people, and those that I see our government pursuing. Those don't align. The political cudgel is the drumbeat of division seemingly constantly being amplified and exploited. The reality is that most folks are much more reasonable, tolerant and humane than a perception based on media reports would leave one to believe, regardless of political leanings. Both sides of the fence have remarkably similar values, ethics and interests.

I hear the Ducks did good. Quack. Despite the distraction of light reflecting mirrored helmets stabbing into commentator's eyes. Must have been sunny. No Beavers.

Of course organized sports only reinforce an us vs them mentality, and don't get me started on that. Obviously there's an element of schizophrenia to my character, as I could care less about sports, but a local rivalry finds me rooting despite how wrong I know codified warfare guised as sports is. Ducks lick the Beavers, go Ducks!

We won't go into the pomp and pageantry of a parade and all that's wrong there at this time either. That kind of surrealism gives me the willies. There is a naivete of hope reflected though, that could be construed as inspirational.


jaded bitter curmudgeon neal

[vdubyah73]

we root for the underdog, go beavers go!

[glasseye]

I can't imagine a parade for a football game evoking such a reaction! Hopeless you are.

Football game? What football game?

I just love all the pageantry and colour and the incredible effort that people will expend to make something beautiful. The Rose Bowl Parade is the only parade I know of that smells good.

Besides, it's not my fault. I even get all choked up and teary-eyed in movies. You shoulda seen me after the Shuttle launch.

[glasseye]

There is a rift between the values and interests of the people, and those that I see our government pursuing.

I should clarify my notion of "America". I refer to the State, the political entity, not the citizens.

There is certainly a rift between the government and the people. The rift I was referring to is that of the stated values of the government vs it's interests.

[Amskeptic]

There is a rift between the values and interests of the people, and those that I see our government pursuing.

I should clarify my notion of "America". I refer to the State, the political entity, not the citizens.

There is certainly a rift between the government and the people. The rift I was referring to is that of the stated values of the government vs it's interests.

If greed can make an individual divide right down the middle, split a family right down the middle, rip a community right down the middle, ya think it can't divide a nation down the middle?

Those with a stake in the greed, I guarantee you, are the better liars.
Colin

[ruckman101]

There is a rift between the values and interests of the people, and those that I see our government pursuing.

I should clarify my notion of "America". I refer to the State, the political entity, not the citizens.

There is certainly a rift between the government and the people. The rift I was referring to is that of the stated values of the government vs it's interests.

Ah. Indeed, that is a different critter.


neal

[Velokid1]

America's values- the ones that exist on paper- certainly diverge from its interests. Our commitment to a now-perverted form of Capitalism and perpetual growth enslaves us to Corporations and puts profit above any values we hold as a country or as individuals. We've put ourselves in a very compromising position that forces us to choose between living in accordance with America's original values and keeping the economy robust, because a robust US economy has come to mean that we give up upward mobility, rights, physical health and responsible consumerism so that big business can continue to grow to ever more monolithic proportions. We're stuck feeding the monster that is holding us hostage and will snack on us should we try to walk away.

It wouldn't be impossible to break out of that paradigm, but it would too painful for most people to voluntarily choose. We've become accustomed to the current form of pain. Change and sacrifice is darn spooky.

[Amskeptic]

It wouldn't be impossible to break out of that paradigm, but it would too painful for most people to voluntarily choose.

We will soon not have to worry about the "voluntary" choice.

As you can see right here on this forum, the chances of finding a consensus that can withstand the sacrifices required are exceedingly slim.

I hope whatever the form of protest that is needed to rouse the status-quo defenders follows what we learned from the civil rights battle ... dignified, pacifist, relentless, even MLK erudite?
Colin

[Velokid1]

The "sacrifice thing" is something I've been ruminating a lot about the past couple weeks. That is, are we... am I... really willing to make the sacrifices required to wrest control from the current power elite and to accommodate the human population that is growing so frightfully quickly?

I watched a film recently where someone was making the point that the typical European city is designed such that it takes up 1/3rd of the square mileage that a comparable US city takes up, due to differences in how we lay out our towns and cities. The corresponding reduction in energy usage is just about the same... they use about 35% of the energy we do, per capita. This person then points out that the bulk of the energy used even in European cities is due to automobiles and that if American cities were to be redesigned AND no longer stuffed full of automobiles, they could reduce their energy consumption by 80%. So our potential capacity for sustaining an enormous human population worldwide is actually great. But it's a potential that stands almost no chance of being actualized, because at the end of the day... how many among us are willing to do without automobiles? Even if it meant changing the world in a profound way? My guess is, not many of us.

We want to change the world, but NOT if it means that we all must sleep in a room that is 88 degrees in the summer and 60 degrees in the winter.

So it's not our potential that makes things seem so hopeless. Our potential is mind-boggling! We are absolutely brilliant animals. What makes things seem so hopeless is our apparent lack of insight, foresight and courage to forge into the unknown and to see ourselves as so blessed that we are willing to sacrifice elements of our lifestyle that we've grown accustomed to. We're obsessed with our perception of things being taken away from us and ignorant of the abundance and potential that surround us.

Me included.

[Amskeptic]

We're obsessed with our perception of things being taken away from us and ignorant of the abundance and potential that surround us.

Me included.

Starts in childhood. Here's my new bumper sticker:
"Give your kid the damn cookie and save the world."

[Velokid1]

I like that a lot.